Austerity Survival Guide

Bripocalypse · 2012-05-27T02:18:06.602988+00:00

Spending is just redistribution of wealth. Growth comes from investment in the means of production.

Bripocalypse · 2012-05-26T23:44:58.729612+00:00

It doesn't matter if a government worker can spend as much as a private sector worker because spending doesn't cause economic growth, investment does.

xProphet · 2012-05-26T22:44:50.849887+00:00

I'm so sick of having to correct EVERYONE when these thread come up.

xProphet · 2012-05-26T22:44:26.047726+00:00

The argument is that micro-econ != macro-econ.

Bripocalypse · 2012-05-26T22:27:34.863789+00:00

Go look up the definition of production and tell me how DMV workers, IRS agents, and Congressmen contribute to that, bud.

Bripocalypse · 2012-05-26T22:12:54.417015+00:00

If you think it's reasonable for your doctor to recommend you drinking more orange juice and sending you on your way when you just got shot I don't know what to think. I'm not going to insult your intelligence by assuming what you said is what you really think.

meoxu7 · 2012-05-26T22:08:38.078533+00:00

Unions are fine.

Unions merging with legislative powers is not.

Bripocalypse · 2012-05-26T22:01:07.598280+00:00

Your comparison of factory workers and government workers makes no sense. Factory workers' jobs contribute to production and growth. Government workers' do not.
Factory workers are paid from their employer, not from the collective citizens of the United States who are paying salaries involuntarily. As such, their wages are detracting from growth, not contributing.

Bripocalypse · 2012-05-26T21:48:01.686249+00:00

Puts money in pockets of people who didn't have it before meaning they can spend said money, since stimulating the economy requires a grass roots mass of spending,

Spending is not how you get out of a depression/recession. Herbert Hoover and FDR tried that and all it did was prolong the recession, turn it into the Great Depression, and then prolong the Depression. We were still in the Great Depression until Congress repealed most of FDR's policies in 1948.

not letting the big corporations run free

You said people should be spending, but then you say we can't let big corporations run free. Where do you think all that money goes? All big corporations want you to do is spend, spend, spend because they own almost everything you buy.

Got people off the streets who had nothing better to do while improving America's infrastructure

Got them off the street and on the government payroll. That doesn't help the economy. Wasteful government oversight is the least efficient way to improve infrastructure imaginable. If we really wanted to have adequate infrastructure (where I live you're lucky to have a car last 6 years on our shitty roads and highways) we would eliminate State services and legalize private infrastructure.

Improved morale in the family's who had a husband or son involved, since it's better to do SOMETHING seemingly useful than do nothing and feel useless

Please tell me how FORCIBLY sending husbands and sons off to war 2000 miles away where they would have a very likely possibility of dying improves anyone's morale. If I had to worry everyday about my son dying I would not have some ridiculous feeling of "patriotism."

Trained the workforce who previously had lost all skill and were thus un-hireable

Just because the government hired someone doesn't mean they magically received training. If they didn't have the skills to perform a task, they were trained. The exact same thing happens with private jobs.

Is largely supported by Keynesian economics theories, some of which say it wasn't big enough.

Considering the New Deal and WWII didn't get us out of the Great Depression, that's hardly empirical evidence in support of those theories.

Keynesian Economics is at this point pretty much the most legitimate economic theory, especially since the ones we've been adhering to have tanked the country.

Our country was much more free and successful before Keynes even knew what economics was.

Bripocalypse · 2012-05-26T20:38:50.973024+00:00

Any form of taxation hurts the economy. Considering all the things you listed could and would be produced without involuntary taxation makes that an unnecessary drag on recovery.

Of course all of this is a red herring. Just because post offices would help the economy doesn't mean that's how you get out of a recession. That's like going to a doctor for a shotgun wound and being told to get more vitamin C in your diet.

That sort of stuff improves quality of life and puts a little money in the pockets of people who would otherwise have none.

You're right. The State should print money equal to the average wage in America and give it to everyone who doesn't make that. Zero consequences.

Bripocalypse · 2012-05-26T20:28:16.822065+00:00

..from which they derive their income.

3pict3tus · 2012-05-26T20:27:04.199031+00:00

The only reason you would want to get rid of capitalism first is because you're afraid capitalism would naturally occur without a State, therefore using the State's coercion is the only method to eliminate it.

Not only is it Marxist, it's hypocritical, oppressive, and antithetical to every single belief anarchists are supposed to hold.

hardwarequestions · 2012-05-26T20:22:32.432172+00:00

Milton Friedman's monetary theories are notoriously horrible.

Obviously he would disagree with the ABC.

Bulbakip · 2012-05-26T20:19:49.193061+00:00

If you say the currency we use as a representation for our labor doesn't belong to us, you're saying the State owns our labor.

Bripocalypse · 2012-05-26T20:02:32.638448+00:00

Our economy was still in a depression until 1948. If WWII got us out, that wouldn't be the case.

A depression is not only determined by employment. Otherwise we could get out of every single recession by hiring every single unemployed person as a government worker. Government jobs contribute no production growth to the economy and can further sink an economy because every government job means one private job has to be taxed to pay for it. The equivalent would be a factory owner hiring his work force, then increasing the work force by 50%, but the new workers are paid from the paychecks of the existing workers. That clearly makes no sense.

As for what the government workers would actually be doing: there is a difference between work and a job. As part of the New Deal, FDR put thousands of men to work. Meaning, in some cases, digging ditches and filling them back up. That is work. AKA a welfare system that required you to put forth time to receive benefits. Unfortunately it doesn't help the economy at all.

Metal_Corrections · 2012-05-26T04:53:31.160538+00:00

I am unbelievably excited for the new Be'lakor album.

CMAN1995 · 3 days

It's your labor so it's your rock. They are my tools but it is still your labor done with them. My logic remains sound.

CogitoErgoNihil · 3 days

I don't know what's so hard to believe about the possibility of him improving. As far as raw skill, he has the potential to be one of the best slot receivers of all time. Sometimes it just takes time for them to blossom.

Maybe this is just hype, but I'm always excited to hear of improvements.

beardown__ · 3 days

This isn't a big concern because Urlacher knows the defense better than the coaches

Ha ha, so true.

DCPagan · 3 days

You can twist it around as much as you want. What he said was an immature statement. It doesn't matter if he's 12, 17, or 45, it was immature and I called it such.

DCPagan · 3 days

Maturity is a psychological term used to indicate how a person responds to the circumstances or environment in an appropriate manner. This response is generally learned rather than instinctive, and is not determined by one's age.

Maturity

CMAN1995 · 3 days

A right is not necessarily a real thing, just a way of categorizing (not a good word but the best I can come up with) the notion of ownership.

In other words, ownership does not exist because we have rights, rights exist because of ownership (self ownership and the extensions). It is for this reason that arguing semantics doesn't make sense. If someone is going to argue the point, they have to go for the substance rather than the word.

DCPagan · 3 days

Maturity has absolutely nothing to do with age. Persecution complex.

xProphet · 3 days

It only removes the icon. There are ways around it.

I wish we could though.

xProphet

TROPHY CASE

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