Owen Jones: If socialists really did run the show, working people would benefit

Skilbride · 2012-05-26T07:38:02.526073+00:00

I am well aware of the attempted coup.

I am also aware of quite a lot of things - I wasn't aware that omission of every single detail in a debate was tantamount to "selective memory".

I am having a "Pub debate", not writing a 200 page thesis for the UN Security Council.

Pizza401 · 2012-05-26T07:36:14.731598+00:00

Guns have one function - to kill or maim. Whether it is animal or human, used in anger or defence, a gun has a single operating function.

Alcohol is a socially pleasurable drug that is tolerated in society because in general the downsides are limited and alcohol has a wide range of functions - of which death by accident is a very minor aspect.

...to extend your argument to its logical fallacy - in the USA around the same number of people are killed in road accidents as by alcohol. I wonder if the USA would support a ban on the motor car?

HMP_AMA · 2012-05-25T17:19:57.148429+00:00

I read Ben's Prison Blog so I have his side of the debate. How much do you agree/disagree with his view of the system?

seanbastard1 · 2012-05-25T15:17:56.268085+00:00

If the website is operated by a sole individual as a personal website then you are allowed to conceal your identity.

igeldard · 2012-05-25T15:11:20.366158+00:00

If it decreases car usage and therefore congestion and smog in London then it's fine by me.

...except that the Dartford Crossing isn't in London

DVC888 · 2012-05-25T15:10:39.211117+00:00

The UK is democracy with an elected government and Parliament and has for historic reasons a hereditary head of state who is just a figurehead with no political power whatsoever.

syuk · 2012-05-25T15:05:53.199901+00:00

If detective movies are to be believed, then all detective agencies are subject to violence, threats and broken marriages - and are perpetually on the verge of being kicked out of their office because they are broke.

Skilbride · 2012-05-25T14:59:56.432799+00:00

By screwing the oil companies I am talking about sacking quality managers and putting in political apointments in their place.

I am talking about driving down financial reserves so that the companies cant invest in future production.

I am talking about forcing them to subsidise services directly that should be coming out of general taxation.

I am talking about the very thing I mentioned in the first comment - a short termist approach that will ruin the economy in the long term and actually goes against the principles of socialism.

EquanimousMind · 2012-05-25T13:43:08.638618+00:00

You can argue the semantics of whether it is formal request, or a request put out in public for everyone to snigger at.

Whichever it was - it made them look like a bunch of idiots.

PeterLondon · 2012-05-25T13:24:29.912300+00:00

In some situations consistency is useful - and to be honest, if a person has a "favourite independent" are they not equally guilty of seeking a consistent service instead of walking for 20 minutes to the next independent to get a different service?

For me the most important consistency is the chance of getting a seat - and its that which is probably the biggest determinant of where I will sit down for a coffee.

If I see two coffee shops, one a chain and the other an independent, it's the one with seats that gets my custom, regardless of which it is.

87liyamu · 2012-05-25T13:21:14.948757+00:00

I would expect you to read the entirety of my comment where I pointed out that I am not singling out Gove in my criticism.

Skilbride · 2012-05-25T13:20:42.737126+00:00

Although Chavez also destroyed independent media, screwed the oil production companies that the economy depends on and terrorised the opposition politicians.

Frankly, I'd rather live in an unequal but free country than in a Chavez dictatorship.

EquanimousMind · 2012-05-25T13:05:26.351518+00:00

On that one we will disagree then on the issue of the facts rather than the paranoid twitterings of the wikileaks twitter account.

There are sufficient issues for an investigation and insufficient reasons for him to avoid being treated as any other suspect in such a situation would be.

Although you are still refusing to answer my question - was Wikileaks right to expect The Queen to interfere in the issue?

EquanimousMind · 2012-05-25T12:45:48.673537+00:00

I am not actually judging the issues they raise - I am mocking their comments and behaviour when trying to deal with serious issues.

Do you really think they were right to call for the Queen to interfere in the judicial process, or do you think they were a bunch of idiots for saying that?

jjonnnyy · 2012-05-25T12:43:53.874082+00:00

http://853blog.com/2011/11/25/have-you-tried-your-local-bike-shop/

EquanimousMind · 2012-05-25T12:34:34.792800+00:00

Wikileaks also called for The Queen to interfere with the judicial process and block an extradition if one is decided upon.

When they come out with crap like that, and then someone cites them as a legit source, you have to just laugh.

And laugh lots.

...regardless of the merits of their arguments - their behaviour has been their own worst enemy.

EquanimousMind · 2012-05-25T05:24:53.346486-07:00

plugged by @wikileaks . should be legit

Rolls around the floor in fits of hysterics.

Skilbride · 2012-05-25T12:09:49.625911+00:00

The working classes have indeed prospered under Castro, Chávez, Stalin, etc.

More seriously, we might be better off in the short term, but socialism always seems to destroy the long term prosperity of a nation.

It might be nicer to be richer today - but wouldn't a genuinely socialist nation worry more about the bigger picture and the well-being of the next generation than itself?

EquanimousMind · 1 day

There was so much paranoia on that website that I was tempted to invest in tin foil hat providers.

PeterLondon · 1 day

Disliking Starbucks because you don't like the coffee is a perfectly reasonable and rational reaction.

I don't like Nero coffee because it is too strong and bitter for my palette (and strong coffee makes me ill anyway).

However, it's when people extend "nah, they dont serve coffee the way I like it" into "its the nastiest evilist company in the entire history of humanity" that I look at them and wonder if we are still talking about coffee or just a generic anti-capitalist rant.

CaptJHarry · 1 day

The difficulty is that you are asking people who have homes in London and therefore generally don't use the local hotels which local hotel to stay in.

Londoners probably know more about the hotels in Paris than the ones in London.

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