eitauisunity

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TROPHY CASE

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George Orwell for you guys. I find this extremely relevant for today's era. (x-post from QuotesPorn) by nikiHXMin Libertarian

[–]eitauisunity 1 point2 points ago

This doesn't affect the fundamental ideals of which he is speaking. If anything, it should be considered a significant confirmation of the ideas of liberty that someone who is regarded as "pretty far from libertarian" lands on the very same ideals. It would suggest, at least to me, that the problem isn't with the political identities that people prefer to live within, but rather the political system that hijacks the governance of society from society.

Have we talked currency before? by rotoreuter48in redditisland

[–]eitauisunity 0 points1 point ago

It would be pretty bad ass. It would also be almost impossible to tax and the costs of transaction would be virtually zero.

Have we talked currency before? by rotoreuter48in redditisland

[–]eitauisunity 0 points1 point ago

Actually, my statement was incorrect. 1 bitcoin has stayed between $4.80 and $5.20 for the past several months. I meant to say +- $.20 of $5.00. Sorry for any confusion.

Have we talked currency before? by rotoreuter48in redditisland

[–]eitauisunity 1 point2 points ago

actually bitcoin has been hovering within +- $.20 of $5.00 for the past several months. The currency will tend to become less volatile as the market matures. Also, as new financial services such as options develop, the market will become very stable provided people keep transacting in it.

I personally think currency isn't something that needs to be centralized. There is a legitimate value in having currency and people will tend to figure out how best to facilitate that over time.

EDIT: Correction made.

Debate an Anarcho-communist: The Truth about the Non-aggression Principle and Capitalism by Evolutionfirein Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]eitauisunity 0 points1 point ago

[Punishment] can deter crime and prevent the offender from committing further crimes.

I somewhat already addressed deterrence in one of my previous comments, however, I find that deterrence alone does not justify punishment. If the purpose of punishment is deterrence, and the point of deterrence is to prevent a future crime, either by the original aggressor or other potential aggressors, and the punishment can not do anything to make the victim whole, then it is in essence punishing for a crime that has not yet been committed. This alone is rather unjust, but the idea that punishing one party in attempt to deter other parties seems even more egregious. It essentially equates to punishing someone for the potential future actions of others.

Punishment can even rehabilitate some criminals, if it is not capital.

As a voluntaryist I advocate all human interactions need to be voluntary, lest they be immoral. If someone who has committed a crime and voluntarily agrees to submit to whatever ruling the arbitrator makes, retribution certainly could be a favorable outcome. However, rehabilitation that is not voluntary I would still argue is immoral.

It can satisfy a victim's longing for revenge, or his relative's desire to avenge.

I would argue that revenge and vengeance are a class of emotions that are sadistic in nature. While I agree that people do have sadistic thoughts and feelings, it is still wrong to act on them. While revenge and vengeance may be a far more understandable emotion, they are still sadistic. Deriving pleasure from the harm of others and acting on that pleasure against a person's will or preferences is not something I can justify as moral or just. If a sadist wants to act on these pleasures I am willing to posit that there is a function of the free market that will allow them to do so, but it definitely should not be the punishment of an unwilling party.

Punishment can also be used as a lever to gain restitution, recompense for some of the damage caused by the crime.

Punishment can be used this way, but it is unnecessary to consider it punishment, and there are other functions that work just as well in order to compensate damage and injury caused by the commission of a crime. Again, I bring up the distinction between punishment and consequence. If person A commits some trespass against person B, and the consequences of person A's trespass is a damaged front door, a missing tv, an injury to B which resulted in a visit to the doctor, costs of investigating the crime and finding A, and the costs of arbitration, and B is successful in meeting whatever burden of proof the arbitrator set to be convinced that A did commit and is liable for the trespass, then it would be reasonable to say that person A should be held liable for the consequences of his actions, not for retributive purposes, but simply because they are proximately related to A's own actions. Certainly B would not have gone to the doctor, replaced his front door and spent money on investigating and tracking down B if B had not committed this trespass. B certainly isn't likely to have spent money on an attorney or going to an arbitrator to hear the case against A had A not committed the trespass. All of these things could be said to have been consequences of A's actions, and it's reasonable to impose the costs of A's actions against him when he unjustly imposes costs against someone else. This is not something that falls within the scope of punishment or retribution. Simply calling punishment the consequences of one's actions are not sufficient to demonstrate that they are. Punishment occurring is completely independent to the action's of A and are imposed after the fact. The consequences of A's actions, however, are not independent of those actions, and occur regardless of whether A is caught. The idea that if A is caught and should be made to pay for the consequences of his actions comes down to the idea of liability, not punishment. Liability is a form of consequence because it manifests itself in the form of a responsibility that someone takes on. Liability can be implied or explicit, but none the less, inheriting liability is usually due to one's own actions (or the actions of another that you are charged with the responsibility of such as a child). Liability is a form of consequence because it is attached to the individual's actions and is dependent upon them. Punishment is not. If I ignore my responsibility to not break into your house, steal your TV and attack you in the process, it is reasonable to expect that I have imposed some level of damage against you. It is reasonable for me to expect that you will replace your door and tv and may visit the doctor to heal your wounds. These are costs that I have imposed against you. If I'm caught, repaying these costs are my liability and are justified. But forcing me to sit through some form of beating or imprisonment has no inherent attachment to my actions. There is nothing for you to gain by me getting assaulted or imprisoned other than to satisfy a sadistic urge. Also, imprisonment sold under the guise of safety is one I find hard to buy. Prisons usually tend to make people more violent and only more efficient criminals and should only be used to hold people who are there voluntarily. There are far more direct things that can be added in the name of safety. Perhaps compelling the criminal to pay for a level of safety that would have deterred him from committing the crime in the first place (eg, an alarm system, a dead bolt, et) yet still it would have to be after he agreed to appear to arbitration under no duress.

The whole idea of estoppel as applied by this book seems to be based on the subtle application of an ad hominem. The author claims that the legal idea of estoppel should embody the idea that actions and assertions should be consistent. This is a fine idea, but what are the conclusions in the context of enforcement? Someone can't claim to be the victim of assault if they have assaulted someone in the past? Someone can't claim to be the victim of rape if they have raped in the past? This seems to be a rather ridiculous basis for a legal theory (statists going to state I suppose). The idea that someone must live in perfect sync with their assertions lest their assertions be disregarded would mean that you probably couldn't take any reasonable or logical advice from anyone. An assertion should be judged only on the merits of its soundness in logic and the context in which it is being applied, regardless of the speaker. You can call a person a hypocrite for behaving in ways that are contrary to their assertions, but that does not poison the idea behind their assertion.

This does not discount the practicality of how estoppel is used, however. The idea of estoppel in the contexts of a lawsuit often are used for efficiency. If I cause $10,000 in damages to you, and you cause $10,000 in damages to me, certainly we can spend money on suits and counter suits to get a ruling that I owe you $10k and you owe me $10k, but in reality, the compensation of damages would simply cancel each other out. This does not mean that the damage done in total cancels out, however, it simply means that both parties have $10k less in overall wealth, leading to an aggregate loss of $20k. There is no need to add to these losses by pursuing a lengthy and expensive lawsuit, so courts use estoppel as a means by which to prevent such a lawsuit from occurring.

It becomes difficult to defend the idea of estoppel when it is interpreted as "You hit me, so I hit you and that makes us 'even'." It certainly does not make the parties even, it puts both of them worse off.

I define aggression in this context as "an initiation of violence or coercion against another person with the exception of force used as self-defense." I would define self-defense as "the immediate and necessary response to aggression that leads to the dissipation of that aggression." So when I say, "imposing aggression on the aggressor" I mean "using violence beyond the context of self-defense as a means to resolve an aggression that has already occurred." It wouldn't be a logical contradiction because any force that goes beyond the necessary means to end aggression would be defined as aggression itself. The extreme example would be if you slapped me 2 days ago, then I find and kill you, you wouldn't say that me killing you isn't aggression because it was in response to you slapping me, would you? Even if I simply hunted you down and slapped you back, doing so wasn't necessary to end your aggression, because you were no longer aggressing against me at that point. Since there was no immediate threat that you imposed against me at that time that justified me slapping you, it would be considered an additional initiation of force, therefore it would be additional aggression.

Unfortunately I don't really have any additional links to present to you. I find that I have a tendency to simply agree with a good idea that I read on mises and tend not to do a rigorous consideration of those ideas. Instead, I try to reason through things in the context of hypotheticals and discussion. I used to do quite a bit of reading on mises and find that it doesn't really give you the skills to convince other people of these ideas since most people don't consider it a credible resource (nor do they take the time to read the material anyway). I got frustrated by this. The idea that I was doing all of this reading to have the source's credibility disregarded. I realized that if I was going to convince someone I would have to take the time to build on the ideas that they already hold and show them to follow the natural conclusions of the opinions they already hold. Since most people already agree with the basis of the NAP, I find it is easy to convince them to at least extend the conclusions of their opinions to be more peaceful, if not full on voluntaryist.

Tips for debating with anarchists and statists in general by throwaway-oin Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]eitauisunity 4 points5 points ago

I find this to be extremely useful. I remember with having a discussion with one lady at work who claimed that an arrest wasn't force. I took a few mental steps back and got her to agree to a definition of force and worked from there. It's also helpful to let them define the terms that they are familiar with (like violence, coercion and force), and find other words to use that they are not familiar with to define the ideas that you are trying to convince them of. People are very emotionally charged when you are challenging a view that they hold based on information that is already established in their life, and the use of words that they are already familiar with and have defined to reinforce their world view will very likely lead to frustration. If you use words that they aren't emotionally attached to, it's far easier to get them to consider these concepts.

EDTI: TL;DR a thesaurus can be your friend.

Debate an Anarcho-communist: The Truth about the Non-aggression Principle and Capitalism by Evolutionfirein Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]eitauisunity 0 points1 point ago

fair enough. I assumed this was probably the case, but like to clarify nonetheless. Thanks for the reply.

Debate an Anarcho-communist: The Truth about the Non-aggression Principle and Capitalism by Evolutionfirein Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]eitauisunity 0 points1 point ago

Maybe I am misunderstanding by what you mean when you say 'ok' but I don't see why it should be okay to murder for the sake of murder, injure for the sake of injury, rape for the sake of rape or steal for the sake of stealing. If someone imposes a punishment such that they are forcing that person to go through what they put the other person through, how is that not hypocritical? "This thing you did was bad, so we are justified in doing the same thing to you!" The logical conclusions of this kind of reasoning are also problematic. There is no good that can be served by the use of additional aggression in response to aggression.

The reasons for which people commit crimes can be categorized in any of a few different reasons: Out of passion, out of compulsion, and out of the motive for profit. You could argue that imposing the same aggression on the aggressor as they did their victim could act as a deterrent against other potential criminals and that would be the good, but there is little deterrent to be had. You can't deter someone from committing a crime of passion, simply because the reasons by which they commit them is because they are not in a rational state of mind. So whatever punishment would be imposed against them after the fact may likely not be on their mind when they commit their crime. A similar argument could be made for someone who commits a crime out of compulsion, but the very nature that it is a compulsion they have such an overwhelming biological imperative to commit a crime, there are no deterrents that could occur after the fact that would prevent them. Even crimes of profit cannot be deterred but only shifted. Either shifted in the price of paying a person to commit a crime, or value of the things taken by imposing such a fine. Even now with imprisonment as a potential cost for committing burglary, people are willing to take on that risk to take goods of value. It's simply a matter of targeting a house that will yield goods that would justify the cost of taking that risk.

Ultimately the solution to someone who responds with retaliation as a means to satisfy their ends may be that people don't associate with them, but it is definitely not behavior that people should be ok with.

If you came across two men, one on his knees begging for his life, and the other with a gun to that man's head, and you pull a gun on the second man demanding that he drop the weapon and let the first man go, and he replies with, "But he murdered my wife!" would you stand by while he kills the defenseless man on his knees?

What if later you find out that the second man was lying and you could have done something about it? What if you find out that the second man had mistaken the identity of the first man and he killed him? Could you live with yourself knowing that you could have stopped that tragedy from occurring? What level of proof would you find satisfactory to stand by and let a man die? Should it be beyond a reasonable doubt? Should it be beyond any doubt period? We are talking about a man's life, after all and the damage of taking it can't really be undone.

Now let's say that you do stop the second man from killing the first man, and you come to find out that the first man did in fact kill the second man's wife in a brutal and horrific fashion. Would you feel anywhere near as guilty for preventing the second man from killing him as you would in the first scenario?

I would posit that you also find yourself on a slippery slope once you accept the idea that punishment and retribution are acceptable outcomes to a problem.

Debate an Anarcho-communist: The Truth about the Non-aggression Principle and Capitalism by Evolutionfirein Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]eitauisunity 2 points3 points ago

I think there should be a distinction made between punishment and consequences.

If person A commits an act of aggression against person B and in the process person B successfully protects themselves against person A's aggression such that person A experiences some loss (of life or property) or injury during the defense that would be considered a consequence of person A's actions and are perfectly justifiable.

If person B is not successful in protecting themselves against Person A's aggression in an immediate fashion, person B certainly is still entitled to compensation for person A's act of aggression. But that compensation should be limited to filling some loss that person B has incurred (eg replacing of the wallet and costs of tracking person A down and recovering his wallet, paying for medical bills that resulted from injury, compensation of time taken to pursue the matter, etc) and this, insofar as it is compensating person B for person A's aggression, is still completely justifiable and is a consequence of person A's act.

Pain for pain's sake against person A, however, is simply cruel and unjust. There is no compensation that person B can get out of some punishment of person A other than some satisfaction of a sadistic inclination. Punishment only serves to perpetuate aggression and violence and is no more justifiable than the act that was committed by Person A to begin with.

The whole idea of rights, IMO, is to serve as a heuristic by which humans can peacefully resolve conflicts. Having punishment in addition to consequences seems to fail in these ends.

Debate an Anarcho-communist: The Truth about the Non-aggression Principle and Capitalism by Evolutionfirein Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]eitauisunity 2 points3 points ago

Yes. I was simply giving an example of a successful monopoly, the only one I knew of in fact, and pointed out that even given the fact that it was successful by not price gouging, it still existed through the use of state enforced patents.

EDIT: Worded better.

What trivial act would you like to ban or make illegal? Personally, I would like to outlaw public speakers who start off by saying, "I can't hear you!" or "Let's try that again!" by danger_mcboomin AskReddit

[–]eitauisunity 0 points1 point ago

I get that this is in jest, and that it's not actually advocating the use of law to ban things like speech that are annoying, but rather just a question to incite a discussion of things that annoy people. In that light, the thing that annoys me the most is people who advocate banning things and using law (ie state coercion) to carry out that ban.

Debate an Anarcho-communist: The Truth about the Non-aggression Principle and Capitalism by Evolutionfirein Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]eitauisunity 0 points1 point ago

If each party has the right to give something away, wouldn't they also have the right to exchange something?

Given the following assumptions:

  • It requires materials and labor to build something.
  • People should have the right to give away or exchange goods.

could someone choose to simply give away their labor? The fact that I can make something, thus employing my labor and my materials, and give it away means that I am giving away my labor and my materials in a modified, usually more useful form. If I have a right to do this, wouldn't it inherently follow that I have the right to exchange just my labor, or just my materials?

Assuming the answer to that question is yes, there is another question I have:

If someone makes watches and trades them for various things, and saves those things, and then comes across a piece of land that is unowned, can that watch maker trade the things he has saved to a group of individuals who agree to clear the property and build a factory for him under the expectation that they are just trading their labor for the various goods, and not the future production of the factory?

If the answer to that question is yes, let's assume that many people know this watchmaker and are familiar with his work. They find that his watches are reliable, attractive and durable, and they are often willing to trade with him frequently. The watchmaker realizes that there is a much greater demand for his great watches than he alone can satisfy, so he decides to build this factory . Let's assume that he is able to make more from selling his watches than it costs him to make those watches, and people are okay with this discrepancy in price, lest they choose not to purchase from him. With the discrepancy between what he sells them for and what it costs him to make, he chooses to trade a portion of that excess to a few people in exchange for their labor, and they voluntarily agree to take that in lieu of taking the risks and rewards of running the factory. Shouldn't those people have the right to repeatedly exchange their labor to the watchmaker for repeatedly getting something from the watchmaker?

Let's say that this economy uses something durable, divisible, and transportable in order to make trade easier for people, and they call it money, and people are happy to trade in this money, as they find the value in the convenience of doing so, lest they simply choose not to exchange in money.

Would the watchmaker and his clients have a right to exchange watches and money?

Would the watchmaker and the group that cleared the unowned land and built the factory have a right to exchange money for labor?

Would the watchmaker and the group not have a right to agree to exchange money and labor?

Finally, I would ask if you believe that people have a right to contract, voluntarily, with other parties?

Debate an Anarcho-communist: The Truth about the Non-aggression Principle and Capitalism by Evolutionfirein Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]eitauisunity 3 points4 points ago

I'm not saying it is. I was just using it as a historical example, and it was the only one I was aware of.

Debate an Anarcho-communist: The Truth about the Non-aggression Principle and Capitalism by Evolutionfirein Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]eitauisunity 2 points3 points ago

Punching someone back for punching you isn't necessarily defense and may also be an initiation of force. It may be a semantic point, but one I think is worth making. I think the only time you are justified in using force is to end coercion in progress, but only enough force to end that coercion. If you need to punch them to prevent them from punching you or to get them to cease punching you, this would be justifiable. However, if someone punched you and was able to get away, and then you hunt them down and punch them, I would say this is not justifiable and would define it as an additional initiation of force.

Also, another distinction that people fail to make is that anarcho-capitalist philosophy is based on the Non-Aggression Principal. The initiation of force used for aggression is a part of this, but not all initiations of force are aggression, and non-initiation of force is not the only form of aggression.

For clarity, when I say coercion I mean the practice of forcing another party to behave in an involuntary manner by use of threats or intimidation or force.

Debate an Anarcho-communist: The Truth about the Non-aggression Principle and Capitalism by Evolutionfirein Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]eitauisunity 8 points9 points ago

The only long-term successful (meaning no subsidies from the state) monopoly that I am aware of is AlCOA. They had a monopoly for close to 50 years until they were broken up in 1938 by the US Justice Dept. They maintained their monopoly by having an extremely efficient process for reducing Aluminum Oxide (very abundant) to pure Aluminum. However, this isn't quite a true monopoly in the sense that they operated by the use of their patents which barred entry by other firms. They were also incorporated which comes with it's own set of protections by the state (however I don't think AlCOA caused any significant harm that lead to limited liability thus enacting that protection by the state). From my understanding AlCOA maintained their monopoly for so long by keeping prices incredibly low compared to other competitors and did not really exploit their position through pricing only by having patent protections.

Debate an Anarcho-communist: The Truth about the Non-aggression Principle and Capitalism by Evolutionfirein Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]eitauisunity 1 point2 points ago

There is something I am unclear about, as I have not seen it covered in your statements. Do people have the right to transfer possessions according to your view? If I make a watch, can I then choose to transfer that possession to someone else?

EDIT: Assume that the transfer of possessions is voluntary as both I (the watchmaker) and the person I'm transferring it to both want this exchange to occur and it is not under duress or coercion by either party or any third party.

civcraftian gets angry that a local settlement thinks that his base is a neutral ground to grind mobs and take stuff from. by BolKakain SubredditDrama

[–]eitauisunity -1 points0 points ago

haha, when are people going to realize that I'm not the person who you need to convince you aren't a piece of shit. If you want to return what you took, then that is up to you. All I am doing is providing info to the community.

Mindscale, i3eamish, ryker13, Somethingsauchy, Apheidas, Cooliocrow, drwashington, GTPres, lem0nland911111, lenicis, and NoxyD have all broken into and stolen from my grinder, many on numerous occasions. by eitauisunityin Civcraft

[–]eitauisunity[S] 0 points1 point ago

The reason was that I had a grinder that was previously destroyed and stolen from. I had 18 locked chests, and the building was locked with stone. It was just a matter of glitching up from below and not only was I out all of the materials they took, but also the 18 diamond I had protected the chests with. Also, I had several other people who co-owned the grinder and my group permissions were already dedicated to another project. One of my partners offered to lock the chests under his group permissions, but never got around to it. So, yeah, being "too stupid" is definitely it, lol.

What colour should you paint rooms? by thelcusiin LifeProTips

[–]eitauisunity 109 points110 points ago

me: "Hmmm, this is interest---yellow: increases metabolism" ಠ_ಠ

civcraftian gets angry that a local settlement thinks that his base is a neutral ground to grind mobs and take stuff from. by BolKakain SubredditDrama

[–]eitauisunity -3 points-2 points ago

Ignore, missed, whichever. I appreciate any repairs you may have done, and appreciate the fact that you respected the co-owners request to not return. But you still insist on keeping the property. I can't do anything with it since I am quitting, but you took something that isn't yours and you feel justified in keeping it. I think that is interesting knowledge for people to have about you. That is the point of whatever exchange this has been. It, you, or anything about this has bothered me. Even at the peak of my time playing this game did I ever take it this seriously, nor do I now. I don't understand why this is so hard for people to understand...

Mindscale, i3eamish, ryker13, Somethingsauchy, Apheidas, Cooliocrow, drwashington, GTPres, lem0nland911111, lenicis, and NoxyD have all broken into and stolen from my grinder, many on numerous occasions. by eitauisunityin Civcraft

[–]eitauisunity[S] -1 points0 points ago

But that's the thing though, I'm not angry at all. The point is that it is borderline fucked. There is nothing to 'win' and getting my stuff back is completely irrelevant. This makes me think you didn't actually read my post, which is perfectly fine, but then to speak on the matter as if you did? well that just makes you look like [Some borderline fucked insult] a silly goose.

TIL Limewire is Being Sued For More Money Than Exists In The World - 75 Trillion Dollars by kubabubbain todayilearned

[–]eitauisunity -1 points0 points ago

Does it matter if it's legal? We can do it, and fuck them, lol!

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