this post was submitted on
237 points (73% like it)
367 up votes 130 down votes
all 162 comments

[–]Jaraxo 83 points84 points ago

I'd much rather have a system that helped countless people like yourself and your family but a minority abused, than have a system that doesn't help anyone. Though I'm in the UK so maybe I'm biased.

[–][deleted] 32 points33 points ago

People seem to forget that welfare is about maintaining social stability, not just doling out money to "lazy" people.

[–]soulblow 9 points10 points ago

My wife is an examiner. The amount of bad cases she gets is absurd.

However, stories like this do make it all worth it. She just wishes that more of her time could be spent helping people than dealing with mounds of bullshit.

Sadly there are people who need help that slip through the cracks and people that don't need help that get free money for the rest of their lives.

On a side note. The policies in our state are rather strict and the abusers don't get past in this level. They usually get by because of a lazy appeals judge who greenlights all the cases rather than doing his/her job.

It's common knowledge how to game the system and far too many people are taking advantage of this. But when a person of low moral character realizes that he/she can get free money for the rest of their life. They somehow find the motivation to do something.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 6 points7 points ago

It's unfortunate that so many people don't stop to think that they are taking a spot from someone who actually needs it.

[–]soulblow 1 point2 points ago

The shitty part is how much money goes towards helping these people. As expected when a person applies, they are given up to 3 free doctor visits and transportation as needed. Each visit costs hundreds of dollars that are paid using money that should be going to help people who need it.

The worst one (in my opinion), is the illegal immigrants who apply with a fake social security card. They are not reported or prosecuted in any way.

Note: I am a Colombian immigrant, I'm not anti immigrant....I'm anti government fraud.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 11 points12 points ago

I'm very grateful that I live somewhere where I can get the help I need and unfortunately I do have to use tax payers money, and I feel bad about that. I just thought I'd say thank you for all the help they've given me.

I don't think you're biased, er I don't see how you would be. Then again I just got up not too long ago, so maybe I didn't understand your comment fully.

[–]thatdamnshirt 14 points15 points ago

He/she may be biased because they're from a place with better social service programs than the US and there isn't such a stigma about seeking help. I'm glad you've gotten the help you need!

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 3 points4 points ago

Ahhh I see now.

Thank you! :)

[–]podkayne3000 2 points3 points ago

Maybe the guilt is a symptom. If you're on medication, maybe ask whoever prescribed the medication about the guilt. You are a good person who deserves help, and, if a little voice says anything differently, it's just a bug in your wetware. You can't help what you feel, but it's just about a neuron having issues, not you.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 4 points5 points ago

Unnecessary guilt is actually a part of OCD, I guess I didn't realize that, glad that I do now, thank you for pointing it out! And thank you for the kind words <3

[–]podkayne3000 0 points1 point ago

Try to get OCD about telling yourself how cool you are and brave you are at dealing with the primitive state of OCD science.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 0 points1 point ago

..uh what?

[–]faschwaa 4 points5 points ago

I explained this sentiment to my fiercely conservative boss, and he said, "We need to fix the problem, and that's gonna require sacrifice." I felt a little sick.

[–]steve-d 11 points12 points ago

I am happy for you. It makes me mad how in the US we spend so much money on wars and foreign aid but people right here at home need help and we seem to not care and ignore them a lot of the time.

If my taxes have gone to help you then I am glad some of it has gone to good things.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 2 points3 points ago

I'm glad that you're not angry about it going to help people, I've gotten a million negative responses about it. There are so many people who abuse these kinds of benefits which makes those of us who need them look like lazy scammers.

[–]steve-d 2 points3 points ago

If most tax dollars actually went towards helping Americans then I would be happy. Sure some people game the system but that is to be expected. Hearing first hand how it is helping someone is always great to hear! I am really happy for you and thanks for sharing your story. I hope the therapy helps you!

[–]clemen2 0 points1 point ago

Entitlement and welfare spending is by far the largest federal expenditure in the US.

[–]harsesus 0 points1 point ago

We actually only spend 1% of the federal budget on foreign aid.

[–]Crimeodial 21 points22 points ago

Hey man, that's what it's for. I know some people abuse the system but I'm always glad to see it help folks like you in a one of need.

[–]umilmi81 4 points5 points ago

Everyone I've known who was on disability was cheating the system. That's why I have such a pessimistic view of it. I've also known two handicapped people who genuinely would qualify for disability, and they actually work for their living.

[–]goofproofacorn 6 points7 points ago

my uncle is on disability and his only real ailment is hes lazy.

[–]Crimeodial 1 point2 points ago

Anecdotal evidence is all ill ever need!

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] -1 points0 points ago

Understandable.

[–]paganize 0 points1 point ago*

It's sort of half and half, for me. Whenever I see someone who is obviously gaming the system, it pisses me off. But you can't always tell who is gaming the system.

EDITED to remove way too much personal information

TLDR: Sometimes you can't tell when someone is gaming the system.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 1 point2 points ago

This is very true. I'm sorry for your injury, it must be awful to live with. I truly hope that you can live a happy life.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 3 points4 points ago

And you've helped so much. :)

[–]austinette 4 points5 points ago

When you are ready, please seek out the services of your local Goodwill. They can place you in an appropriate position.

[–]nightshifter 2 points3 points ago

TIL, thank you.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 4 points5 points ago

What do you mean? Like for a job or charity?

[–]austinette 4 points5 points ago

Goodwill's mission is to help people with barriers to employment, like disability, find work. It's a great resource in many communities. :-)

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 2 points3 points ago

Oh awesome! I'll have to contact them! Thanks for the advice :)

[–]austinette 4 points5 points ago

No problem! I'm a bit passionate about Goodwill. They do amazing things but all most people know about is the stores.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 1 point2 points ago

That's all I knew about, tbh. I will definitely be looking into it further now :)

[–]austinette 2 points3 points ago

Yay! I love when people find out more about Goodwill! They will be a big help I bet.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 3 points4 points ago

I hope so! :) I'm glad you informed me about this!

[–]gusshopper 8 points9 points ago

Don't feel guilty. You are putting yourself back into a place where you can contribute. Once you are well enough and working, your taxes will go on to help someone else that needs help just as bad as you do know.

I am glad that you had the courage to seek out help in the first place. Too many of us suffering from mental health problems never seek the treatment we need. I have been guilty of this myself.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 0 points1 point ago

I always try to encourage someone who is suffering with a mental illness to seek treatment, some therapists still barter. I hope that when I get out of this rut I can help break the stigma of being disabled with a mental illness and the social stigma of having one. Thank you for your comment <3

[–]Unbirth 4 points5 points ago

More than happy to do it friend. You are absolutley the reason we have the system we do and I would give more if I knew every bit went to more of this and less of waste and war mongering.

Keep fighting the good (metephorical) fight!

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 3 points4 points ago

Thank you! I wish the system was set up better as well!

[–]JtheHomicidalManiac 9 points10 points ago

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 3 points4 points ago

This made me laugh, thank you! :)

[–]ktoth04 2 points3 points ago

^__^

[–]bound_morpheme 4 points5 points ago

I am so proud of you for how hard you have worked and for the fact that your future plans including being off of disability. You are using the system the way it's mean to be used and, as a taxpayer (and as someone who used to suffer from terrible panic attacks), I am happy to be able to help you get to a place in your life where you can face your future confidently and continue to make strides without taxpayer assistance.

Best of luck to you and your family.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] -1 points0 points ago

Thank you so much. I really appreciate the kind words :). My father is also on disability, but he's a veteran who has worked all his life and had to retire early due to COPD. So a big thank you on his behalf as well!

[–]bound_morpheme 2 points3 points ago

You're very welcome. And please please please let your father know that I thank him from the bottom of my heart for his service. There is nothing we could ever do for our veterans to repay them for serving our country.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 2 points3 points ago

I will thank him! I'm very proud to call him my father, he's an incredible man. And thank you for the kind words. :)

[–]MamaGrr 3 points4 points ago

From someone who has seen what OCD can do to a person, I've got no problem helping you out :) I hope your future is great.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 1 point2 points ago

thank you very much, it's going to be! :)

[–]EthicalReasoning 3 points4 points ago

isn't disability only about $800/month before taxes? how do you live on that?

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 0 points1 point ago

it is indeed about that, I live at home, so it goes to help with expenses that I create and to pay for therapy and doctor bills.

[–]EthicalReasoning 1 point2 points ago

i find it offensive that someone is expected to live on $800/month before taxes, but the usa has amazingly distorted priorities.

get well soon.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 1 point2 points ago

Actually I'm perfectly happy with what I get, it's helped quite a bit. Beggars can't be choosers. Some people do need more though.

Thank you <3

[–]IkLms 0 points1 point ago

I could easily do that. Welfare and disability isn't supposed to allow you to live like kings and enjoy any and all luxuries you want to.

It's tough to live on $800 a month but you can do it if you bypass cable, expensive cell plans, internet and all the other things that aren't necessary.

[–]memway 0 points1 point ago

You have no idea how long I've waited to read a post like yours only with the phrase "How dare you?".

[–]obrysii 2 points3 points ago

I work retail for a living and take home maybe around $800/month. This month will only be $700 because of low hours.

[–]EthicalReasoning -1 points0 points ago

but you must be only working part time, not that it makes the lack of a living wage in the usa any better.

[–]obrysii 1 point2 points ago

Part-time only because I can't find full time work.

[–]thekenzo 2 points3 points ago

As someone with a disabled daughter, the monthly checks to help cover her expenses really help out. Thanks to all of you tax payers.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 3 points4 points ago

Props for saying thanks! I was sort of scared to post this because of the negative reactions I could get. Hope your daughter is well!

[–]rmm45177 0 points1 point ago

I had extreme anxiety about a year ago so I can understand how you feel. My panic attacks would sometimes last more than 12 hours at a time. I was close to commiting suicide because it was just too much for me. Thankfully I got through it though. I know it can be tough, but I'm sure you will too.

Sorry you're receiving hate from some ignorant morons here. Good luck!

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 0 points1 point ago

I'm sorry you had to go through that, I'm glad you're better now though. It's difficult to live with. It's even harder to battle, but it's nice to see someone that got through it. Gives me more hope! I wish you the best of luck :)

And it's okay, seeing people who are understanding and supportive is worth the few idiots that decide to comment :)

[–]mr_jellyneck 3 points4 points ago

There is this "self-determination" element to American culture that everyone who works hard will be able to pull themselves up by the proverbial bootstraps, but that's just not reality and hard work doesn't guarantee anything. We need a strong social net so that all members of our society have their most basic needs met. It's right and decent, and I'd want the assistance if I needed it (and maybe some day I will).

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 1 point2 points ago

I agree, I plan to become a massage therapist and pay taxes and support myself as soon as possible. So if you ever need the assistance, I'll be more than happy to help you :)

[–]mr_jellyneck 1 point2 points ago

Best of luck to you!

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 0 points1 point ago

Thank you! You as well :)!

[–]poopdedoop 3 points4 points ago

You know, It's people like you, who are grateful for the help they receive that makes me feel a little better about disability support money.

I have a hard time believing that people on it actually need it, but from what you've said, offers me a little hope. Let me explain.

My girlfriend's friend is on disability. I don't know her exact problems, but I know she has some anxiety and depression problems (don't we all) anyways, my gf and her roommate are being nice and letting her friend live with them (she has been for a few months now) She gets $1000/month from the government. This for people who don't know, is all she receives, no more, no less. It's to cover the cost of living and other expenses. She doesn't pay full share of rent (only about $250/month and no utilities, she is subletting from someone who hasn't lived in the house for almost a year now) She spends the rest of her money on junk. Over $100/week on weed, She buys a 26er of tequila and vodka every few days, and sit's at home, gets high and drinks. To say the least, I don't like going over there because 1. She's a belligerent drunk who is always high, and 2. I can't stand the smoke (not just weed but she does poppers all the time too)

She has tried to convince my girlfriend to go on disability because she's not getting too many hours at work, and then she could travel with me when I go away for work. Now my girlfriend could qualify for disability (but I'm not going to get into it) but she's more than capable of working and her friend is trying convince her that it's better to be on disability because it's "free money" (as she says) and she wouldn't have to work. This made me almost lose it. I told her that her friend is abusing the system and she is trying to get her to do it as well. The more I see her friend the more notice that she's lost touch with how society works.

She doesn't understand that I can't stay over at my gf's place all the time because I have to work in the mornings, she forgets that people have responsibilities in life, and if it weren't for us that worked, she wouldn't be able to sit on her ass all day and get drunk and high.

End of my rant.

It's nice to see someone, who WILLINGLY wants to thank the people that help them. I'm sure nobody made you post and say thanks, and that shows that you are truly grateful. So thank YOU for being honest, and using the money for what it's meant for.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 2 points3 points ago

Your girlfriends friend sounds like an idiot and like one of the people who make it so hard for the people who actually need it to get the benefits. You deserve to be angry at her for being on disability, she actually gets more than I do and a bit under what my father gets. You should report her and teach her a lesson. I would.

And you are welcome! I care more about getting my life back than having nice things to be honest.

[–]jeannaimard 0 points1 point ago

You should be ashamed of yourself for not being a true-blue Amerikan who willingly chose of his own volition a lifestyle that would have ensured you would be born from a loving family that would have given you good genetic material that would not have left you with disabilities!

This is Amerika, land of the saint-holy personal-responsibility™, where people have to face the consequences of their lifestyle choices without burdening the hard-working people!

Why do you hate Amerika so much?

This message sponsored by the Sarcasm-O-Meter Croporation Limited.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] -1 points0 points ago

I know, damn me, right? haha

[–]Itkovan 1 point2 points ago

Thank you for even thinking to say thank you in the first place.

Like others here, I am so much happier thinking about people like you receiving my money than funding wars or being send as "aid" to financially healthy countries like Israel. Makes it a little easier to write that massive check every quarter.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 1 point2 points ago

I should really thank you even more for even funding the program! It's truly been a blessing to my family and I. :) I wish you and yours the best!

[–]artofwelding 0 points1 point ago

Sheila??

[–]Kilk1 1 point2 points ago

My boyfriend is in a similar situation he is agoraphobic and has bad panic attacks. I would do anything for him to get better but I understand that he may never get better but that is okay because I love him too much to care. I'm glad there is a system in place that helps people like you and my boyfriend because without it he would have nothing. I hope everything works out for you.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 1 point2 points ago

That's unfortunate for him, he can get better though! It's a struggle to live with, I truly hope he can battle it. Thank you and I wish the same for both of you. It's good that you're understanding and supportive. That is incredibly helpful.

[–]notjapanese 1 point2 points ago

my disability period ends on monday and i'm stoked! broke my kneecap in mid-december and as a server, was unable to work until it healed and i "learned to walk again" haha. there is no way i would have been able to work any sooner than 2/6, in fact i'm a little worried still but i think i'm gonna be fine, i'm staying positive. i never expected to be out of work for 8 weeks straight at any time in my life, and i don't know what i would have don't without this help!

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 0 points1 point ago

So glad you're healing! Glad to hear that it helped you! :) Good luck at getting back to work! :D

[–]notjapanese 1 point2 points ago

thanks! glad to hear you're making progress as well!

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 0 points1 point ago

Thank you! :)

[–]circusnachos 0 points1 point ago

I've been working cash jobs for years. I haven't filed a tax return since high school. But just today, I called an accountant and had to repeat myself a few times, "I want to pay taxes. I feel like I've been gaming the system. I want to help support these services." I have a meeting with him on Monday, we'll see how it goes.

It's for people like you that I want to pay my taxes, even though I'm at poverty level myself.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 0 points1 point ago

Hopefully if all goes well with goodwill, I'll get a job and be able to pay my taxes again.

[–]Tygerlily 0 points1 point ago

Look, no one is saying you don't deserve it, but the way you "Thanked everyone" isn't great. It sounds more like, I'm spending your money, thanks for giving it to me. I'm sure if you had said, "thanks for letting me be able to contribute to society with your hard working contributions." it's quick and to the point.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 0 points1 point ago

It seems like many people think I don't deserve it.

[–]Tygerlily 0 points1 point ago

The way you posted it, isnt too favorable. If you didn't deserve it, how come you're being helped? Seriously, just take care of you, and really don't worry too much on what people on the Internet says. Just tell everyone you are glad that you were able to get help because of what they contribute. That's all. No need to go into detail, especially, when our economy is so tight and everyone is struggling. It just felt that you were rubbing salt into our wounds, saying you got Govt assistant, when everyone else is suffering during the hard times too. :) just take it for what it is, get better and give back to society when you are able to.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 0 points1 point ago

I'm doing my best to take care of me and my family. I did mean what you said basically is that I'm thankful for them contributing which in turn made it possible to for me to get help. I'm better than I was when I first got accepted and plan to rejoin society as soon as I possibly can.

[–]Tygerlily 0 points1 point ago

Right, but the way you wrote it, just made it seem different. Either way, glad you are doing well. :)

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 0 points1 point ago

Thank you, I hope you're well too. And thank you for being respectful.

[–]r00tbeer 1 point2 points ago

I am a Human Service major currently. Some people have difficulty accepting a disability check/food stamps/Section 8 etc but those systems were put in place for a reason. I'm glad it's helping you and your family stay afloat. It's refreshing to see someone show appreciation even if it's a post on reddit. It makes me feel good about what I'll be doing one day. Thank you and the best of luck to you and your family!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

My mother has many medical problems. After several unsuccessful back surgeries, fibromyalgia, severe carpal tunnel, tarsal tunnel and other issues she got to the point where she could barely walk yet she insisted on making the 40 min drive daily to work. She started to see she couldn't perform her job duties and begrudgingly took leave from work. My dad, sisters and I convinced her to apply for disability which she did (her and dad did the first 2 rounds on their own then got a lawyer for the 3rd). My mom was so embarrassed and felt like she was stealing money from someone who needed it more, though by the time she was approved (2 years after initial application) she could only walk with a walker VERY SLOWLY or use a scooter/wheelchair. She was only 51 when she applied and is 60 now and her health has just gone downhill. The $650ish that she gets per month by no means supports her and my dad but my dad has always been an AWESOME money manager and him and mom are living a decent life (he just retired 2 years ago).

Anyways, mom definitely went through the guilt factor but a lot of it was just having for her to accept the fact that she was at the point she wasn't able to perform work anymore. She had always been a very hard worker (even at low pay hard jobs due to her lack of a formal education) and it really hurt her pride. Finally I think she's over that but getting through the mental obstacles was just one of the steps involved getting her to apply.

[–]r00tbeer 2 points3 points ago

Your mom sounds like an amazing woman. I'm glad your parents are doing well now! It's hard for some people to accept that they can't do something anymore... I know my dad had a hard time with it too. Best wishes ;)

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

See my response above to the OP. Also thank you as well for your kind words. Best wishes to you and your dad as well. (HUGS).

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 1 point2 points ago

Your mom is a trooper through and through. Sounds like she's got a good heart as well. I hope that she's doing okay now-a-days. I'm glad she was able to get some sort of benefits, $650 isn't enough. I wish I could give her what I get and take the $650.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

Thanks. My mom is a good person but has issues like anyone else. My sisters and I had a rough childhood because of her but as we've grown up we've forgiven her for the abuse we were subjected to. Life is too short to hold grudges. I didn't raise my kids with all the same methods she raised us and I'm glad for that. My mom was my motivation for getting through college. I got married at 18, pregnant immediately, had kiddo at 19 and still finished my 4 yr degree at 22. I saw how hard my mom worked being a CNA and how horrible it paid and vowed I would not be like her (not in a negative way). That I would never have to rely on someone else to take care of myself and my kids. I've told her that and it really made her cry, mainly because she realized that I did recognize how hard she did work for us.

My mom has her ups and downs but definitely all in all I love her tons. Physically her body is falling apart but she does ok. Thanks to Dad's financial planning that $650 a month does ok for them- it at least ALMOST pays for the health insurance for him and mom after he retired. Medicare doesn't cover enough of mom's stuff, they don't qualify for Medicaid so dad keeps regular insurance for them to take care of the rest to the tune of $9K a year. That so sucks on retirement pay sigh.

Anyways THANK YOU for the kind words, they are much appreciated.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 0 points1 point ago

Wow congrats on everything you've accomplished! Most people think that as soon as you have a kid your life is over. I'm really glad to see that you pushed through everything!

That does sound like a sticky financial situation, I think it's ridiculous that they don't qualify for medicaid. I defaulted to medicare after a year of being disabled apparently. We found out that I'm prone to kidney stones so that wracked up loads of bills.

I hope everyone in your family is doing okay and best wishes for you in the future!

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 1 point2 points ago

You are welcome! It's nice to see people who understand that some people really do need the benefits and aren't just wanting it because they don't want to work. And thank you for the warm wishes, best of luck to you as well!

[–]r00tbeer 3 points4 points ago

It makes me sick to hear people bashing on those who need those benefits. Yes, sometimes the people getting help are abusing it/ don't really need it, but there are so many that do. It's a hard process (at least in my state) to get disability. I think this helps to cut down on the fraud but it also makes it harder to get it.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 0 points1 point ago

It's pretty hard in my state to get it from what I've heard, I was lucky enough to get accepted the first go around. While it's upsetting to hear so many negative opinions on my current situation, I still thank those people who are helping me. Having the acceptance process be so difficult does definitely cut down on scammers, which is good, but somehow a few always get by.

[–]VedicCat 0 points1 point ago

You're welcome. I hope you enjoy getting out and conquering your life.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 1 point2 points ago

the more I do it the more I love it :)

[–]skorsak -3 points-2 points ago

he has agoraphobia. I doubt he'll be doing anything useful.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 0 points1 point ago

Just so you know, I am a female. And having any kind of mental disorder doesn't make me defective or broken. You're obviously a troll, but failing miserably at it. Thanks for your input though.

[–][deleted] ago*

[deleted]

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] -1 points0 points ago

Not sure what you're meaning by this... But ok.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]zaferk 1 point2 points ago

Its absolutely hilarious how the dude on the public dole calls you selfish.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] -3 points-2 points ago

Selfish because he's mad about helping someone who needs it, maybe I should have used the word "dickhead" instead. I tried to work, I had a job, but because of my anxiety I lost it. Oh boo hoo right? Yeah it's a walk in the park for me, I get to sit here and panic all day. Big whoop, right? Totally, it's a breeze. I'm such a mooch. I could totally just be fine over night. When I try and leave the house I can't function due to panic attacks, but that's super easy to live with. You're right, I mean what am I doing. I guess I could just have a job for 2 weeks until I get fired for not showing up or for hiding in the bathroom during an attack. I'll just jump from job to job, because that's how I want it to be. Ya know, rather than get the therapy that I need.

[–]zaferk 2 points3 points ago

Work at home?

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] -1 points0 points ago

I actually plan to give goodwill a call tomorrow to see if I can find a job where it won't aggravate my anxiety.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] -2 points-1 points ago

it's kind of sad how angry you are. You're obviously a selfish and sad person. Well let me educate you a little bit since you're obviously lacking in that department, OCD is an anxiety disorder that can become crippling, not depression. I doubt you understand how the brain works so I'll stop there. I hope you find something in life that can make you less of an asshole. Thanks for your help though :)

[–]suninabox 3 points4 points ago

You're obviously a selfish and sad person

If he's selfish for wanting to keep his money, are you not selfish for demanding it?

Does he want his money to help others or to help himself?

Do you want his money to help others or help yourself?

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] -3 points-2 points ago

As soon as I'm able to work and pay taxes I know my money will be going to help at least some people who are less fortunate and I am glad I can help those people. He's selfish because he can't see that even though working sucks and being financially stressed sucks, a little bit of his money is helping people. (not just me)

I am not demanding money from anyone. I'm not robbing anyone blind, it's ridiculous that you people think I'm robbing you of every cent you've earned. I'm sorry that I have issues, but the only thing I can do is pay for therapy and get my shit back in order.

[–]suninabox 2 points3 points ago

the only thing I can do is pay for therapy and get my shit back in order.

Are you exercising intensely for at least 30 minutes every day? Are you meditating for at least 20 minutes at day? Are you reading books on CBT in your spare time?

Then you're not doing everything you can.

I am not demanding money from anyone.

Cool, so send the money back to people with a letter explaining your situation and then if they decide they want to help you they can send it back.

Otherwise you're complicit in accepting money from people who were forced to give it regardless if they think you're deserving or not.

Oh wait, that wouldn't really be practical. So I guess you're not demanding money off anyone, but you are willing to let other people demand it for you, and accept it when you get it (And presumably if it came down to a vote you would vote that those people are forced to help you).

Tell me, if I decided that, as someone with a computer (or at least access to one), you are vastly richer than 50% of the worlds population, that I was going to take money from you and give it to people less fortunate than you in the bottom 1%, would that be cool? Would I not be demanding you help people less fortunate than yourself?

It's funny how all these generous people who are so in favour of taxes helping other people, always seem to draw the line at themselves.

He's selfish because he can't see that even though working sucks and being financially stressed sucks, a little bit of his money is helping people. (not just me)

Most of his money is actually hurting people, either through the insane level of imprisonment of non violent criminals, or the propagation of misery through the military industrial complex (both from massive rates of mental illness, suicide and physical injury inflicted on US soldiers, and even greater harms inflicted on the civilians of foreign nations).

You're sayings it not okay for him to have a problem with being forced to help you. You're saying that you are a correct judge to decide that he needs his money less than you need it. As the guy said, he has his own problems and you have no idea what those are but it hasn't stopped you from deciding he's undeserving of that money and you are deserving.

As soon as I'm able to work and pay taxes I know my money will be going to help at least some people who are less fortunate and I am glad I can help those people.

If you think the government can do a better job of spending your money to help people than you can, then I feel sad for you. If I wanted to help other people I'd be donating to the WFP and the Malaria vaccine initiative (which I do), which are two of the biggest bang for buck charities on earth. I sure as hell wouldn't pay for bombs to be dropped on Pakistan, Afghanistan or Iraq, or pay for non violent drug users to be imprisoned for cumulative millions of years.

[–]--- 0 points1 point ago

A lot of people on disability are permanently unstable. If the governments doesn't provide them a mere $700 every month, the disabled person could result to stealing and violence to survive.

Otherwise you're complicit in accepting money from people who were forced to give it regardless if they think you're deserving or not.

Nobody is forcing you to give money to the US government. If you do snot want to pay taxes, then you may not pay taxes and possibly suffer consequences from the IRS, or you may move to a different country.

[–]suninabox -1 points0 points ago

If you do snot want to pay taxes, then you may not pay taxes and possibly suffer consequences from the IRS

How is pay or go to jail not forcing me to pay?

If a mugger says to give him your wallet or he'll stab you, is that not forcing you to give his money, since you can just possibly suffer the consequences from the IRS? Or run away?

Also even if I "possibly suffer the consequences of the IRS", or in otherwords definitely go to jail for years, they will seize my assets anyway so it doesn't matter if I consent or not. It's either pay taxes willingly and stay out of jail, or refuse to pay, have the money taken anyway and go to jail. If you can't see how that's not a free choice you don't know what the concept of free choice is.

I'm not hurting anyone else. I don't see why you should want to put me in jail (Thus hurting someone), especially when if you did send me to jail I'm not going to be helping anyone, and I'm going to be costing the government thousands of dollars a year to house.

If the governments doesn't provide them a mere $700 every month, the disabled person could result to stealing and violence to survive.

700 dollars a month could pay for 700 diarrhoea vaccinations in the 3rd world. That will save at least a dozens lives a month.

Do you think this guy is going to go on a killing spree that kills dozens if that $700 goes to a vaccination charity instead of him?

Also given that this guy was suffering from agoraphobia I find it highly unlikely that he would actually go out and rob people. If he was fit enough to go out and rob people he'd be fit enough not to need disability checks.

[–]--- 1 point2 points ago

700 dollars a month could pay for 700 diarrhoea vaccinations in the 3rd world. That will save at least a dozens lives a month.

There's no good reason for USA to help another countries citizen instead of it's own citizen.

How is pay or go to jail not forcing me to pay?

Just look up the definition of force.

[–]Tygerlily -1 points0 points ago

Haha, I think this throwaway isn't paying his taxes. Cause, I sure know that, if you don't pay your dues ( to the govt) you go to jail!! So, what name should I be looking up for?

[–]suninabox -1 points0 points ago

There's no good reason for USA to help another countries citizen instead of it's own citizen.

Are American's worth more than other people?

If you think so, then you're right (in your own twisted way).

However if you think all life has value regardless of what patch of dirt it happens to be in, then it makes no sense to prioritize any nationality over any other (unless you want people to help people in your nation because you fear one day you might need that help)

Just look up the definition of force.

Force : Coercion or compulsion, esp. with the use or threat of violence.

How is "pay or go to jail" not that? Do you think they just wait for you to walk into the prison cell? If you do not go, they will force you. If you resist being forced, they will kill you.

[–]--- 0 points1 point ago

Are American's worth more than other people?

Of course American's lives are worth more to American's. Just like a mother's child is worth more to her than a random kid across the street.

If you think so, then you're right (in your own twisted way).

Are you a troll or genuinely stupid?

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] -1 points0 points ago

I'm only going to say a few things. 1. I am truly disabled by my conditions, and I'm not going to let anything you say get to me or make me feel bad for something I could not choose. 2. I'm not going to suffer just because other people have it worse than me. 3. I've been doing CBT, that is what the therapy is for. I do exercise and meditate.

[–]suninabox 1 point2 points ago*

  1. I am truly disabled by my conditions, and I'm not going to let anything you say get to me or make me feel bad for something I could not choose.

When did I try to make you feel bad for your condition? I criticized your attitude towards charitable giving and the morality of accepting money that was not voluntarily donated. Those things have nothing to do with your condition.

There are people without your condition who feel the same way you do and who I criticize in the same way. There are people who have had your condition who feel differently. It's dishonest to try and pull the "you're attacking me for my disability" card.

If you feel bad from what I say, its because I'm calling you out on hypocrisy, which unlike your condition is something you can choose.

Also if you can type on a computer then you're not "truly disabled". There are thousands of jobs available in the tech sector you can do from home that pay exceedingly well and have flexible hours if you're will to spend 10-40 hours learning HTML/CSS and PHP, and those aren't even hard to learn. If you're willing to put effort in and learn Javascript, Ruby or Python or something then you have even more job opportunities.

  1. I'm not going to suffer just because other people have it worse than me.

So it's fine for you to not want to give up what you have, even if it belongs to other people, because you don't want to suffer. But if people like myself would rather help people who have much worse problems that are much simpler to fix, then we're just selfish assholes?

Why is your suffering worth more than the millions of people who will starve to death this year?

Not only are you saying your suffering its more important, you're saying its multiple times more important because it costs a hell of a lot more to help you than it does to help them.

If you say you don't support me being forced to help you, either give me some of my tax money back, or send it to someone I'd prefer have it (such as the WFP or the MVI). Since you're not going to do that, at least admit that even though you're not the one personally forcing me to pay, that you do have a choice to pay me back and you're deciding not to, and if someone asked "Do you want this guy to be taxed to pay to help you or someone else" that you'd say help you and not the others.

  1. I've been doing CBT, that is what the therapy is for. I do exercise and meditate.

So what do you need my money for again? There's no evidence CBT practised with a therapist is significantly more effective than CBT practised at home, especially since the vast majority of benefit you will get from CBT is the exercises you are meant to do away from therapy. If you're not doing MOST of your CBT work outside of the therapists office then you're not maximizing your treatment.

Everything your therapist is telling you, you can learn for free with your existing internet connection, or with a library card. Your therapist is not some ground breaking pioneer, what they know they know from reading the same literature that you can read for free on the internet.

It's likely if you gave up even a slim portion of the luxuries you had, then you'd be able to afford generic anxiolytics, which are the only things that actually cost money that have been scientifically proven to help anxiety disorders. Hydroxyzine is one of the best anxiolytics on the market in terms of efficacy-side effect ratio, and its been out of patent for years, and only costs a 5-10 cents a pill, meaning you can get a months supply for less than $5.

you have vast amounts of resources people are already willing to donate to you for free. You could pick up the phone and call any number of organizations for free now and have someone talk through your problems and tell you were to get more resources to help you. But thats not enough for you.

People starving to death in Somalia or Niger only have access to help people are volunteering. Even though you're in the richest country in the world, with access to the most charitable help, you'd still prefer me to be forced to help you than to be forced to help them when it comes down to it, which it does, because they both can't be helped, because you could donate everything the US spends on disability and still only take a small dent out of the global starvation problem)

I don't expect people with problems in the US to prefer strangers in foreign lands to be helped over themselves. I'd just at least prefer it if they admit they're being selfish, and that if someone being forced to help them over starving people, they're not actually being selfish, they're being altruistic.

[–]AcceptableLosses 0 points1 point ago

Thanks for standing up to common fucking sense. I should decide how my money is used for charity, and if at all. It's my blood and sweat that generates my income, and those I do not get back. If I wish to choose to be charitable, it should be my decision.

In the meantime, while I work until my body is broken, these fucks pay reduced rent, get a check on the 3rd of every month, and a SNAP card so they don't have to be shamed at the grocery store with stamps. On top of that, they get a fat income tax refund (I file a 1099) despite not paying payroll taxes, based on "earned income" and if they decide to fart out some kids with all their free time, I'm on the hook for their food, shelter, clothing, education, transportation, everything. Here in Maine if you don't make enough money to keep yourself warm in the winter, the state will give you Fuel Assistance. You know, because you can't afford to live here otherwise. If I want to have a kid? I'm on the hook for all of that (and rightfully so) but I could never afford it. Some of these people are declared disabled at the age of 20 - Which is not long enough to have paid into the system to get out anything out of it, and certainly not for the next 50 years. Let's recoup:

-Because these folks "cannot work" because of x, y, or z, they receive: -A free paycheck every month, regardless. -Reduced rent (and they can still apply for the "rent refund," and get it) -Free groceries -Free healthcare

These people used to starve or learn to deal with it. Sink or swim. If as a lion you cannot catch a gazelle, you will die, and not pass on your defective genetic material. Now there's no reason to deal with it, you just get taken care of. It used to be a family's responsibility for their offspring, now it's mine and everyone's? Fuck that. Why bleed me dry for a bunch of jerkoffs that contribute less than nothing to society?

[–]suninabox 0 points1 point ago

I agree with what you have to say but I think the attitude with what you're saying is pretty offputting and you're not going to be persuading anyone who currently wants to force you to help others to stop forcing you.

I have no problem with disabled people getting help.

I don't even necessarily have a problem with being forced to help someone depending on how its done.

I do have a problem with being forced to help people slightly less fortunate than myself when there are millions of people vastly less fortunate than both myself and the person I'm being forced to help first.

If you're going to say I should be compelled to help others or go to jail, then at least force me to help the people who need it first most, and then we can talk about whether its okay to force me in general.

[–][deleted] ago

[deleted]

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] -1 points0 points ago*

Relevant username. Despite your terrible attitude thanks for your help :)

Oh by the way, here's the wiki page for agoraphobia... read it and learn something

[–]zaferk 3 points4 points ago

You suffer from....a phobia? My god, this has to be an all-time low for a "disability".

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 2 points3 points ago

A phobia that makes it so that when I leave the house I get crippling panic attacks. Do you know what agoraphobia is? Mental illness has always been an accepted condition for disability.

[–]killstructo 0 points1 point ago

I'm hoping my mom can get hers here soon I'm tired of trying to cover all the bills by myself and being unemployed doesn't help. Seven applications last week alone still no calls.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 1 point2 points ago

I also hope your mother can get it, sometimes you have to keep calling the office and constantly check on how your application is doing, that's what we did. Getting them on the phone is a task in itself though. Best of luck to you and your mother!

[–]killstructo 1 point2 points ago

Thanks.

[–]IDontHaveTimeForThis -1 points0 points ago

You don't need to thank "taxpayers."

you are still a taxpayer, believe it or not. perhaps you have no income, but you still pay taxes. you are still a contributing member of society. you are not a deadbeat, milking the system (hardly anyone actually fulfills that stereotype). every dollar you spend goes straight back into the economy.

you don't need to thank anyone. instead, you should contribute in another way. work to get people elected who will not actively try to dismantle this safety net.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] -1 points0 points ago

I suppose I was misinformed about how disability worked then. I definitely exercise my right to vote.

[–]IDontHaveTimeForThis 0 points1 point ago

I didn't mean that you necessarily have to pay tax on your disability income (although you might have to), I only meant that you still pay other taxes, like property & sales tax.

[–]eramos -1 points0 points ago

The circliest of circlejerks

[–]suninabox -5 points-4 points ago*

Are your more deserving of help than one of the 90,000+ people who die of malnutrition every day? Then why are you supporting forcing me to pay for you instead of them?

Wait don't tell me, you'd want them to be helped as well, and its not your fault our system only provides help for you so its not your problem. Unfortunately even if you taxed 100% of everything I made there would still be millions of people dying of starvation every year, let alone malaria, diarrhoeal disease and other easily preventable diseases.

But those people don't live in the same country as us, so fuck them.

If your reasoning for why its okay to force me to give you money I've worked hard for is that you "need" help, then I'm afraid you have no business taking any of that money when there are people who die from lack of clean water and food, and not say thousands of dollars of the worlds most advanced medical treatment.

Those people certainly "need" help much more than you do, and its much less expensive to give them the help they need.

If your reasoning for why its okay to force me to give you money, is because you want help more than you care about me or the starving kiddies in africa, then that's okay, it just makes you a selfish asshole (like the rest of us), and I'd like to take the opportunity to throw your thanks back in your face like an ambivalent deity.

Almost certainly your checks could have helped several more people than yourself if given to people in countries where the living costs are a dollar a day or less. I'm assuming you can't get all the help you "need" for a dollar a day.

I'm not sure why you'd bother thanking anyone. They don't have a choice whether they help you or not. Their consent is neither requested nor required.

I guess by thanking them you're trying to persuade more people to support this kind of endeavour. Though you're in luck since most people will be of the opinion that "if it helps even one person" is enough for them to justify any kind of taxation regardless of who it goes to.

If you want to thank me, respect me enough to ask for my help, rather than demand it as right. I've dealt with my fair share of OCD (thank you very much albert ellis and exercise), even contemplated suicide because of it, but I wouldn't have the gall to demand anyone help me with it before they helped one of the millions of people who will die this year from malaria, starvation, thirst, diarrhoea etc

[–]wolffear 3 points4 points ago*

Next time you feel like telling someone off over the internet, regarding a system you clearly don't understand the fundamental workings of, you should probably keep your ignorance to yourself... You act like the OP personally owes you their gratitude in addition to going out of their way to thank their fellow men and women (which is more effort than most would make in this situation). The OP isn't forcing you to do shit.

I'm not saying the system is perfect, but it's better than doing nothing for people who really do need the help. The US cannot solve all of the world's problems... Your basically stating if we can't solve all the problems of the world, then no one deserves help? Should the OP completely ignore help just because of your skewed view of humanity?

I'm sure you donate to all the charities who focus on humanitarian aide, and if you don't, you owe everyone who reads your smut an apology. No one, esp the OP, owes you a damn thing... well maybe a swift kick in the ass for your ridiculous post.

How exactly do you expect disabled people to ask you personally for help? Nothing extraordinary was demand of you, which honestly makes you seem like the selfish prick here, not the OP. The OP went through the SAME EXACT process every single person in the US must go through (of course each state varies on approval) in order to receive disability.

Sure, I would love to see more help being given to those who need it, but disability is not a relief fund for the world's problems. Also, going out of your way to bash the OP for THANKING those who potentially helped his/her quality of life is moronic and rude... I hope you never get in a situation where disability is a requirement in your life...

[–]suninabox -1 points0 points ago

The OP isn't forcing you to do shit.

If that's true, he can donate the money he gets from me to the WFP which is where I'd prefer my money to go. Or he can give it back to me.

If not then he's complicit in the act.

Your basically stating if we can't solve all the problems of the world, then no one deserves help?

Can you read? How is that what I'm saying.

How do you get "Help those who need it most first, and those he need it less second", and turn it into "help no one". I'm precisely saying the money going to pay for this guys therapy should go towards curing malaria and giving food technology to people who will starve to death without it.

This guy is suffering, but no more than millions of people much worse off than him, who have problems that are much cheaper to fix, and don't have access to the help this guy has access to. In this guys local area (assuming he's not living in the middle of nowhere), there will be soup kitchens, there will be mental institutions, there will be phone lines for mental health charities, there will be battered womens shelters and all kinds of other aid given away voluntarily.

I'm saying if we're going to force people to help other people then we should force them to help people dying from lack of 75 cent vaccines and $5 malaria treatments, not those who are merely suffering from mental illnesses that costs 100s of times more to treat and who's treatments are much less effective than the treatments for malnutrition, malaria, diarrhoea etc.

I can see how its better for you to think I'm saying we should help no one, since that's obviously a more unreasonable idea than the idea I'm actually putting forward.

How exactly do you expect disabled people to ask you personally for help?

Through one of the thousands of charities in this country set up to help such disabled people?

There are dozens of charities the OP can call or email right now and get someone to help them with his issues.

The OP went through the SAME EXACT process every single person in the US must go through (of course each state varies on approval) in order to receive disability.

I wasn't saying this guy was the only person undeserving of disability.

No one getting forced help in the US is more deserving of it than someone who is in imminent danger of death who can be rescued for less than 1/100th of the cost of 1 months disability allowance, of which there are millions who die every year.

I'm really confused at why people aren't getting this. It's almost as if when people here the phrase millions of people die every year from the lack of $1-2 treatments, that the horror of that fact is just too big to absorb they prefer to stay in the safe fantasy land where everyone can be helped and that if anyone mentions how it might not quite be a good use of finite resources to spend thousands of dollars on one persons mental health issues when those thousands of dollars could pay for vaccinations or water treatments that save thousands of lives.

I hope you never get in a situation where disability is a requirement in your life...

I've had the same mental illness the OP has had and I helped myself through mainly free means, and what little I did pay for (mainly books), I paid for out of my own pocket and could have easily gone to the local library to read for free instead. The only evidence for things that effectively treat anxiety disorders that can't be gotten for free, are anxiolytic medication, and you can get a months supply of generic Hydroxyzine for $5 or less, which is as effective as benzodiazepines with less side effects, far less addiction potential.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 0 points1 point ago

I'm not undeserving and I should give up therapy (the only thing that has helped me) to help other people? Therapy isn't a luxury for me, it's not something that's fun to do. It's scary and hard. I understand you've had what I deal with, but the severity and what the obsessions are are completely different, how do you know what I go through? I've tried hydroxyzine and it didn't do anything for me. Different people will have different reactions to medications. Also... I'm a female. I'm only on disability because it didn't look like I was going to be able to overcome my agoraphobia in time to jump into another job and help the family out. If you've read anything I've said, I don't plan to be on disability forever. I'm planning on going to school and getting a job and then I plan on eventually going back to school so that I can major in what I really want to do. Therapy has worked for me, I'm not going to give it up. Just because you did your recovery that way does not mean it will work for another person.

[–]suninabox 0 points1 point ago*

I'm not undeserving and I should give up therapy (the only thing that has helped me) to help other people?

I never said you were undeserving. I said you were undeserving in comparison to people who die because they don't have any basic necessities like water, food, vaccinations, let alone expensive psychiatric help.

You still have not directly addressed the point I've made: Imagine 3 hypothetical people in this situation. There's you, Kibwe the starving somali kid, and a taxpayer (representing all taxpayers).

Currently the taxpayer is giving you significant amounts of money and virtually nothing to Kibwe. Not because they've voluntarily decided your life is worth more, but because they're being forced to pay (mainly because voters care quite a bit if someone like you suffers, but care nothing if thousands of people like Kibwe suffer and die).

I'm not talking about taking anything off you. I'm talking about changing the way money is taken from the taxpayer and distributed to other people.

I don't know you, and I don't know Kibwe. I have no reason to believe one of your suffering is any worse than the other. All I do know is that there are thousands of Kibwe's who will die tomorrow because they can't get $1 worth of food, or $0.01 worth of water, or a $5 course of Malaria medication.

If you were going to die tomorrow because of the lack of some $5 box of pills, then I would be fighting for you, and not someone else who wasn't in imminent danger, but as it happens in this case you are the someone else.

You've mentioned that your illness was more severe than mine was (it likely is), and that you have family and that you plan to get a job and help other people out. None of this changes anything. Either I'm wrong about african lives being equal in value, but costing much less to save, or I'm not, but how you feel about your illness, how hard you try, or how much your family matters to you does not change this issue. The people I'm representing all have families and severe illnesses too. If they get the $1-5 dollars they need to live they will likely get jobs and help their family too. Except we could permanently fix most of them for 1/100th of one of your disability cheques, at least where vaccination is concerned.

The issue isn't whether you are suffering or need help or not. The issue is why you're suffering more and deserving more than millions of others who have no access to the help others are forced to provide for you. Not just more deserving, but HUNDREDS of times more deserving, given that it costs hundreds of times more to help you than to help someone with different problems.

You're perfectly okay to say "no, my happiness and mental health and family is worth more than the lives of hundreds of others", I might say the same thing in your situation, but I'd at least like for you to accept that your political ideas are based on self-interest, not on altruism.

However if you admitted that, you'd know there'd be no reason for me to accept that justification for why I should be forced to help you and not others, which is why you've been constantly tip-toeing around the issue of supporting a system that places a value on your life hundreds of times higher than the value of others, for no other reason than simply where you happened to be born.

I've tried hydroxyzine and it didn't do anything for me.

Before or after you tried Benzodiazepines? I only ask because its very rare for doctors to prescribe Hydroxyzine as a first line of attack since pharmaceutical companies are pushing SSRIs and Benzos because the profit margins are higher, and its exceedingly rare from someone to not get helped by GABA based anxiolytics or H1 antagonist anxiolytics.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 0 points1 point ago

... You constantly compare me to people in Africa. No one in America is as bad off as people in Africa. Of course those people deserve money. I wish I could give something to them and help, but the way you have worded every single post you've made has the undertone of, "You don't deserve this money you are getting, but these other people do." I never claimed my suffering was worse, I didn't get on disability because I felt that I was suffering like those in Africa; I've said a million times I got on it (with my fathers help) to ensure that I could still continue my personal treatment of my issues and to help my family stay above water. I don't see why you're egging me on to say that the less fortunate peoples lives are of less worth than mine. I don't feel that way and I'm not going to say what you're wanting me to. I'm sorry you think otherwise. If you compare anyone's problems to those peoples problems we all look like we are basically being whiners, even cancer patients. Cancer patients here have top notch treatment and unfortunately sometimes don't make it, but doctors do everything they can to try and extend the persons life. But would you be saying this to a cancer patient who was on disability? They certainly don't suffer as much as people in Africa do. (though cancer patients suffer a tremendous amount) You might as well be comparing apples to oranges if you plan to keep comparing my situation to a persons in a third world country. You are passive aggressively saying that I am undeserving of the help that I get by saying, "Not just more deserving, but HUNDREDS of times more deserving." The issue is most definitely not why I'm suffering more, because I never claimed that I was. You know you could join the peace corp and go to those places and personally assist those people, except you pretty much have to give up every luxury you own.

I tried the benzos after the hydroxyzine. I asked for something non-addictive when it was decided that I would go on an anti anxiety medication. That is what I got and it did nothing for me.

I'm curious by the way you spelled checks (cheques), do you live in America? I know that people typically spell it that way when they are from Canada, England etc.

[–]suninabox -1 points0 points ago*

You know you could join the peace corp and go to those places and personally assist those people, except you pretty much have to give up every luxury you own.

A) I donate about 2% of my income to the WFP and MVI. This saves more lives than if I spent my entire life working as a front line aid worker.

B) The argument has never been about people aren't allowed to be selfish. If you're selfish, and you're not hurting anyone else (like me), I have no problem with you.

What I have a problem is the rank hypocrisy that says I should be forced to help you for selfless reasons, while you are being selfish in saying you want that help and will not give it up to people less fortunate.

If I'm supposed to be forced to help those in misfortune, there's no way I should be forced to help you while a single family has to die because they have no source of clean water.

I don't know why people keep saying "well if you love africans so much why don't you go help them" as if that's some kind of gotcha. My problem isn't that you're not helping people. My problem is the idea I should be forced to help people with hard to treat mental illnesses before I'm forced to treat people with easy to fix problems like dirty water and diseases with vaccines available.

I don't see why you're egging me on to say that the less fortunate peoples lives are of less worth than mine.

If you don't feel that way, how can you support the idea that other people should be forced to give you far more money, for more expensive problems, rather than that money going to many more poorer people, with much cheaper problems to fix?

If you had equal problems that cost the same to treat then I could see why you should get the same. But the idea that you get MORE when it helps less and they get LESS when it would help more is mind boggling. Again I'm talking from an objective standpoint here. Obviously every individual has a strong self-preservation drive, but imagine these are strangers who aren't you, with no labels attached to them, how could you support such an idea?

Another poster demonstrated the attitude I hate so much and that I am fighting here:

Of course American's lives are worth more to American's. Just like a mother's child is worth more to her than a random kid across the street.

The reason people agree that people should be forced to help you and not others is nationalism/racism and nothing more. They say your life is worth 100x more than some random african, which is why its okay to force help to you and not them. Well fuck that. All life has value. Just because you live in the same country as someone does not make them a more valuable person.

All that is, is the underhanded way of saying "well I might need a disability check one day, but I'll never have to worry about clean water so I should encourage forced help towards problems that effect me (like cancer) and not ones that don't".

I have no problem with people being selfish so long as their harming no one else. If you went to one of the hundreds of mental health charities in the US that is voluntarily funded, and got help from them, or a family member, there is no way I would be saying anything, I would be glad you're getting help. That's their money and they should be free to spend it as they please.

But forcing money from people is harming. It's stealing. Because I'm forced to pay taxes to help people like yourself, that means I have less money to help starving africans, people I voluntarily want to help (and do). Those people should not have to suffer because of your selfishness, especially if the reason I'm forced to help you is supposedly because its the selfless 'right thing to do'.

Do you not see how poisoning and hypocritical it is for one nation to be telling themselves that its richer members should be forced to help its poorer ones, while all the time ignoring the millions who are hundreds of times worse off than anyone in the US?

Take the money if you have to, but don't tell me that if I don't want to help you then I'm being selfish (as other people have accused me and others in this thread for opposing this form of nationalist welfare). The poorest people on this planet could probably be twice as poor, and the richest twice as rich, and still people would be saying we help the rich-poor before the poor-poor.

But would you be saying this to a cancer patient who was on disability?

Yes. How could I not?

Treating cancer costs tens of thousands of dollars, often hundreds of thousands of dollars. Vaccinating against measles or diarrhoea costs 75 cents. One has a fairly high chance of not working, the one has an almost certain chance of working.

The idea that one strangers life could be worth so much more than another strangers, simply based on where they were born is utterly disgusting to me.

Would I spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to save my own life instead of saving thousands of others? You bet. But there's no way I'd force anyone to help me, and even if I was so desperate that I changed my mind on that, there's no way I'd ever be so desperate that I could convince myself it was somehow other peoples selfless duty to help me and not people with far worse problems.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 0 points1 point ago*

So the problem is that people in the US get disability for things that aren't as bad as what people in Africa suffer from? That's ridiculous. The free facilities that people have to use are not as good as the more expensive therapists, that's where having the money to pay for a therapist comes in handy. My therapist is an OCD specialist, say I went to the free mental health clinic here, I would not see a therapist I would see a psychiatrist. Now a psychiatrists job is basically concerning medication only. So I would not learn the tools I've learned in therapy and instead just medicate and cover up the problem rather than working through the problem itself.

You do sound selfish because you think that even though people need help in America and are lucky enough to live in a country that allows them to get that help, they should just deal with their problems (no matter how bad) because people in Africa are cheaper to treat. You obviously don't care very much about fellow Americans. When I start paying taxes I'll be glad to help out my fellow disabled Americans.

If you donate money then you should feel good about what you are doing personally, not telling me that I don't need the money because people in Africa need it more.

You're just as selfish as anyone else, you have luxuries and refuse to give them up to go to Africa and personally help those people out. You aren't better than anyone because you donate 2% of your income. You have no room to talk about this. You seem to think you are entitled to tell people stuff like this because you donate a little bit of money? If you were typing all this from Africa while serving with the peace corps, then could understand where you were coming from. But you're sitting at home in a comfortable house and have just as much as I do. So when you decide to head over there, you let me know because only then you will have the room to tell me that I am selfish for helping myself and my family rather than sending a few dollars to Africa.

[–]suninabox 0 points1 point ago*

So the problem is that people in the US get disability for things that aren't as bad as what people in Africa suffer from? That's ridiculous.

No, the problem is that we're forcing people to help people, and there's only a limited amount of money to go around. For a given $600 a month, we could say hand out 1 welfare check to someone like yourself, who are suffering from a debilitating mental illness. I have never said this isn't a help, and doesn't relieve suffering. However we're not just talking about helping someone or not. We're talking about a choice between where the limited money we have is going.

Another option for that $600, is that we could pay for say 650 MMR vaccinations, or 200 malaria treatments that would save hundreds of lives, and prevent hundreds more from being permanently disabled by the illness. These are people who will get years off benefit from that help that only lasts you a month.

If someone in your family was going to die from malaria and didn't have the money, would you tell the government to pay for your therapy before they payed for the malaria treatment? No? Okay then can we accept then between a choice between life saving malaria treatment and therapy (which is the choice we currently have given millions still die from malaria every year), that its better to pay $10 dollars and save a life than spend $20-100 for a therapy session?

Now given that I know neither you family, nor some Somalian family, and as far as I know your lives are all worth the same, why should my logic be any different to the logic that you would apply in your own family?

I can't see how I as a stranger who knows neither you nor the Africans, should say your life is worth more than 200-400 African lives? Can you explain this to me without side tracking about how you are happy to pay for other peoples disability or how the free services you have access to aren't that good? None of that is relevant to the quesiton im asking.

You do sound selfish because you think that even though people need help in America and are lucky enough to live in a country that allows them to get that help, they should just deal with their problems (no matter how bad) because people in Africa are cheaper to treat. You obviously don't care very much about fellow Americans. When I start paying taxes I'll be glad to help out my fellow disabled Americans.

The american or african part of it is completely irrelevant to me.

If americans were dying from the lack of 75 cent vaccinations and clean water I would want them helped first. How does that mean I don't care about americans? Can you please actually answer this question this time instead of just talking about how you need help too. You keep defending yourself on issues I'm not talking about.

I don't believe that I have the right to take your personal money and give it to africans. However if you are saying that people have the right to force others to help each other, you then have to justify the massive disparity between help that goes to one group of people who live in one part of the world, and other people, all people who as far as I can see have valuable lives.

If those Africans were living in America there is no fucking way anyone would be saying that you should get your therapy before they get their clean water. It's only because we live in a country where not having food and clean water is so unimaginable that you can act like its not the case. When you are thinking about whether the money should help people like yourself or africans, you are not truly imagining those africans as people like yourself, or at least I have to hope that.

I fail to see how them not being in this country changes anything. when you leave the US does your life suddenly become worth less?

If you're going to say its different in America, because American's pay taxes into the system, then the logical conclusion is that anyone who is so disabled they have no chance of paying back into the system should not be helped. If not then whether you pay into the system or not does not matter, only whether you are suffering and need help.

You obviously don't care very much about fellow Americans

I care about strangers equally. Africans and Americans, it makes no difference to me, I assume most strangers are good decent people regardless of where they're born. That's why Africans deserve AT LEAST equal help to Americans, which they aren't even getting now. Certainly I don't believe Americans are worth so much more than Africans that they should get hundreds of times more help than the africans get.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 0 points1 point ago*

How does that mean you don't care about americans? The only thing you have been talking about is Africa. You even said you would tell a cancer patient on disability that Africa needs more help. That's pretty cold. No one said their lives are worth less.

If you're willing to say this to suffering Americans, then it's obvious you don't care about suffering Americans. My father is on disability as well, but he risked his life so that you could sit here and tell me that I don't deserve my checks (yes, that's exactly what you've been saying and don't even try to tell me any different). And to think you would tell him that he should help Africa instead of himself and his family blows my mind. There's nothing I or my family can do to change the system from what it is. It seems that you'd rather donate more money to Africa rather than help people in your own country.

This circular argument is done now. You're obviously on a high horse because you donate money. Talk to me when you join the peace corps and go to Africa to personally help those people. 2% of your income isn't much, but giving up all your luxuries is. You're just as selfish as anyone else.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 0 points1 point ago

I thank you for this comment, I didn't bother to read everything he said. I decided to thank people because fuck yeah it sucks to pay out of your hard earned cash to help people you don't know and even help people who sit at home and collect welfare and just keep popping out kids left and right. I wanted the people who've paid to the system to know for sure at least some of that money is going to the bettering of a family that was in need. It sucks to let money go but never know exactly what happens with it. What this person does not understand is that I can't donate just what I get from him. I can guarantee that it's not much from one single person. If he would like to donate money to someone suffering in at 3rd world country, then he is more than welcome. But I didn't get disability to donate and help other people (that sounds selfish I know) I got it so that my family wouldn't tank. My father helped me get it and it's based off his VA/Disability payments. I couldn't get it on my own as I didn't have enough work credits.

[–]AdjectiveAdverb[S] 1 point2 points ago

Well for one, I believe I never stated that those people don't deserve money. You're more than welcome to send money over there, no one is stopping you. There is nothing I (by myself) can do to help those people, I feel terrible that they live in such horrible conditions. I wish I could help but the reality is my family just does not have extra money to spare.

By comparing my situation to those peoples situations of course I'm going to look bad, but because other people suffer I should too? I am not demanding money from anyone, I need it to help me pay for therapy, if you didn't know it's pretty expensive. I'm glad you dealt with your Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, but you and I are two different people with brains that are wired completely differently. So I don't deal with situations in the same manner you would. I thanked people because they don't have a choice and they probably feel robbed, I don't blame them either. So I just wanted them to know that at least some of that money is going towards helping someone and their family. I don't honestly care if you or anyone else approve of my situation. It's not your place to approve or disapprove.

People sure do pass a lot of judgement without even knowing a persons story. I merely posted this as a thanks for all the help I have received from people that I don't even know. But I will let you assume what ever you please.