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[–]artman 45 points46 points ago

At first I was put off, thinking it would be dated too. But page by page it did become in my opinion one of the best science fiction books of all time.

Gully Foyle is my name

And Terra is my nation

Deep space is my dwelling place

The stars my destination

Be sure to read The Demolished Man. Another classic.

[–]JackLint 6 points7 points ago

The Demolished Man is seconded.

[–]Gully_Foyle 4 points5 points ago

well, I guess I'm not needed here. <jaunts>

[–]snookums 2 points3 points ago

My favorite line from any book:

He was one hundred and seventy days dying and not yet dead

[–]alancanniff 8 points9 points ago

I was less impressed with the demolished man, in fact I didn't really like it at all. I found the plot too fanciful. The Star My Destination though was amazing.

[–]artman 8 points9 points ago

I read Demolished Man first and I reached the same conclusion too, but it is one of the proto-cyberpunk novels in science fiction.

[–]alancanniff 4 points5 points ago

I didn't really consider when it was written, I kind of assumed it was in the 80's. I should definitely cut it a bit more slack.

[–]ElboRexel 2 points3 points ago

It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief.

[–]fingerfunk 1 point2 points ago

Ahhh, yes! On 'faith' at the end when he is space jumping post burning man synesthesia, right? What a fantastic book!

[–]1369ic 0 points1 point ago

Another vote for demolished man.

[–]Konisforce 18 points19 points ago

Love love love Alfred Bester. Feels like he tapped the pure core of a lot of SF ideas years before.

Demolished man is great.

Eight, sir. Seven, sir. Six, sir. Five, sir. Four, sir. Three, sir. Two, sir. One!

Tenser, said the Tensor. Tenser, said the Tensor. Tension, apprehension, and dissension have begun!

[–]Son_of_Kong 6 points7 points ago

Funny thing about "The Demolished Man": the twist ending is actually revealed in the first few pages if you go and double check the codes in the messages that are sent between the two tycoons. Noticed it on my second or third read through.

[–]eosha 2 points3 points ago

Dammit, I'd forgotten that line... now it'll be stuck in my head for weeks.

[–]cdesignproponentsist 0 points1 point ago

No-one's reading your mind

[–]Jack_Flanders 0 points1 point ago

riff!

[–]ac1115 17 points18 points ago

I'm missing something and really confused.

What does the Count of Monte Cristo have to do with Scifi?

[–]doktorgonzo 34 points35 points ago

Both stories are about people left to die, only to return from the brink with a driving need for revenge. The setting may be different, but the archetype remains.

[–]Son_of_Kong 6 points7 points ago

And "Stars" is actually explicitly based on "Monte Cristo."

[–]otakuman 6 points7 points ago

Interestingly, a sci-fi remake of Monte Cristo was written as an anime called Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo.

[–]podcat2 -1 points0 points ago

its actually surprisingly good, although the sci-fi setting is almost more like magic.

[–]Warlaw 3 points4 points ago

I love that archetype.

[–]ChrisAndersen 1 point2 points ago

"Shawshank Redemption" is another story with a similar theme.

[–]spkr4thedead51 8 points9 points ago

plotwise it's quite similar to Stars My Destination

[–]Son_of_Kong 6 points7 points ago

"The Stars my Destination" is a sci-fi adaptation of "The Count of Monte Cristo."

[–]spkr4thedead51 15 points16 points ago

A lot of the late 50s, early 60s scifi is really underappreciated by modern readers, which doesn't make much sense, because it's what heavily influenced a lot of the writers who started writing in the late 70s and 80s.

I don't think anyone can read something like Algis Budrys' Rogue Moon or Fritz Leiber's The Wanderer and not be blow away by it.

[–]Lurker_IV 5 points6 points ago

I like to actually go back another decade or three as well for some occasional science fiction. Those books are fun because they had almost no ideas of what was actually scientifically possible or impossible back in those days. This includes not knowing how rockets work in space, not knowing relativity and some other great unknowns. It made for some truly crazy and wacky ideas, which makes for fun reading.

[–]duckedtapedemon 1 point2 points ago

Ocean planet Venus!

[–]problywontcomment 1 point2 points ago

Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser stories hold up extremely well too.

[–]Corund 0 points1 point ago

Fantasy tends to date less than Sci-fi though. I remember how difficult it was to overcome that innate snobbery when, at fifteen or sixteen, I first encountered Harry Harrison, or Heinlein:

"Man, these guys can't write technology, they're just so stupid."

How little I knew then, how little I know now.

[–]lobster_johnson 1 point2 points ago

True, but a lot hasn't stood the test of time very well. A. E. van Vogt's stuff (eg., Slan, World of Null-A) comes across as quite unsophisticated these days. Much of Theodore Sturgeon's short story output (eg., The Ultimate Egoist) has not aged well. Most of Philip K. Dick's early stuff from the 50s isn't very good, same with Robert S. Heinlein.

American scifi was deeply rooted in the pulp tradition, with weekly magazines for young boys. H. G. Wells, Aldous Huxley, George Orwell, Karel Čapek and others had long before shown that scifi worked as a serious genre, but American scifi met success in that particular market, and unfortunately for a rather long time that was where its main focus was.

I would love to see a list compiled of the better entries from that period. My first choice, I think, would be Eric Frank Russell's Wasp and Brian Aldiss' Non-Stop. Both British, mind you.

[–]spkr4thedead51 0 points1 point ago

I spent the last hour putting together just such a list in response. AND just lost it ಠ_ಠ

It was a really good list

[–]lobster_johnson 0 points1 point ago

I appreciate the effort. :-)

[–]rushmc1 0 points1 point ago

In what branch of the multiverse did Robert S. Heinlein write? Is he better than Robert A. Heinlein?

[–]lobster_johnson 0 points1 point ago

It was his lesser-known brother. He wrote scifi, but with fewer boobs.

[–]rushmc1 0 points1 point ago

So...not better, then.

[–][deleted] ago*

[deleted]

[–]spkr4thedead51 1 point2 points ago

Sure, you have read a lot of that stuff, but take a poll of the folks you know who read science fiction. See how many of them have read stuff from that era or earlier that isn't Heinlein, Herbert, Asimov, and the other BIG names. Who among them read Aldris, James Blish, and others like them?

[–]rushmc1 1 point2 points ago

I thought most sf fans under 30 read Star Wars novelizations, zombie apocalypse books, and Harry Potter?

[–]doktorgonzo 3 points4 points ago*

I picked up a worn mass market paperback copy at my local library's book sale and was floored after reading it. I'm also a huge cyberpunk fan, and you can see the threads that form Gibson and Stephenson's worlds starting to come together.

Funny enough, I actually gave it to my dad who generally dislikes all the books I tell him to read- and he loved it. He read the Demolished Man prior and he thought this one was way better.

Anyway, glad you liked it, and I'm glad to see more people know about it too.

[–]natronmooretron 3 points4 points ago

Read The Deceivers. It's a very strange sequel.

[–]terminusest 0 points1 point ago

...Not a sequel, except in being later in Bester's works. But an excellent book no less.

[–]intergalactic512 3 points4 points ago

Seeing this on Reddit just made my day. I also read this book not too long ago. I had read The Demolished Man a while back and knew what this author is capable of. I too had the same thought of how amazing it is that these books were written in the 1950's.
Intelligent, witty, creative and unique. That's what The Stars My Destination is all about!

[–]Jack_Flanders 0 points1 point ago

Yeah, The Demolished Man is f.awesome indeed. Read it decades ago and still can remember detailed bits of it. It really stuck in my head (no tensors required!).

[–]lobster_johnson 3 points4 points ago

I see The Demolished Man is recommended here, but I also urge you to read Bester's largely forgotten and completely underrated The Computer Connection, also published as Extro.

It's about a group of humans who throughout the ages have become immortal — ageless, but not unkillable — due to a sort of genetic trigger. It includes a character named Jesus, a time-traveler who calls himself H. G. Wells, and a caveman. The main character specializes in discovering new candidates by triggering their immortality switch; unfortunately, the only way he's found to trigger it is by putting them in situtations where they face death (not unlike the discovery of "jaunting" in The Stars My Destination). Needless to say, most of his candidates don't survive. The casual and flippant tone of the book, the weirdly trashy future-English dialect of the narrator, the rampant amorality, etc. all make for a really cool little cyberpunk novel, easily as fun to read as The Stars.

Do avoid Bester's last novels, Golem 100 and The Deceivers. The former some really cool "besterian" moments, but the novel as a whole is a depressing failure, and not worth the time. The latter is a bit more fun, but still junk.

Do, however, please read Bester's short stories. The best ones have been collected in a single volume called Virtual Unrealities. Classics such as Fondly Fahrenheit, Adam and No Eve and Time is the Traitor are some of the most stylish scifi stories ever written. The original collections are out of print, but you can get them on AbeBooks.com.

[–]thesaintoftous 2 points3 points ago

Reading that now myself.

Cognito Ergo Jaunteo. So good.

[–]simucal 2 points3 points ago

Does anyone know of any other novels that are similar in style to "The Count of Monte Cristo" and "The Stars My Destination"? I love good revenge novels.

[–]BartelbyJones 1 point2 points ago

[–]speek 0 points1 point ago

The Gap series by Stephen Donaldson. Dark as savage rape-fuck, though. And not purely about revenge, but it's a pretty big part.

[–]ChrisAndersen 0 points1 point ago

"Shawshank Redemption". At least the movie is.

[–]bcarter3 0 points1 point ago

Balzac's "Cousin Bette" is my favorite revenge novel, but it takes quite a while to get going. Masterpiece Theatre ran an excellent BBC adaptation sometime in the 70s, which is available on DVD.

[–]Overlord1317 2 points3 points ago

The Stars My Destination is my go-to recommendation for anyone looking for an introduction to sci-fi. It's still crackling and fresh after all these years.

[–]KashmirKnitter 2 points3 points ago

When I was in high school my I borrowed books from my boyfriend and his parents who had a huge scifi library. I was looking for a book one day and his dad suggested The Stars My Destination. Probably the best recommendation I ever got. I never would have discovered it without the suggestion. I read it and then immediately read it again. One of my long time favorites.

[–]BeefMagick 4 points5 points ago

Kill you filthy!

I love that, sounds so visceral.

[–]gufdon-upon-labur 6 points7 points ago

I found the book fairly enjoyable. However, I never thought to associate it with cyberpunk. Did I miss something importat? What parallels did you see?

[–]rubygeek 14 points15 points ago

Mega-corporations as powerful as governments; an amoral hero; a dark future where technology is both used to repress and is the tool with which renegades fight back. William Gibson has cited it as one of his early influences (incidentally a very interesting list of sci-fi writers favorite sci-fi books).

[–]s1k0p4th 9 points10 points ago

Mega-corporations as powerful as governments; an amoral hero; a dark future where technology is both used to repress and is the tool with which renegades fight back.

... I thought we were talking about science fiction here?

[–]rushmc1 2 points3 points ago

The fiction is the "hero" part.

[–]Letmefixthatforyouyo 1 point2 points ago

Yeah dude, he is.

We just happen to also live it.

[–]econleech -2 points-1 points ago

Mega-corporation's association with cyberpunk is incidental. There's no reason cyberpunk needs to have it.

[–]Monkeyavelli 30 points31 points ago

They are fairly essential to the milieu. Part of the cyberpunk feel is an atmosphere of alienation and isolation. The individual is adrift in a rapidly-changing society, an almost meaningless speck in a vast and impersonal system.

One key part of this is that even political relationships don't mean anything anymore. Instead of governments that have at least some connection to the people, the power is in the hands of vast, impersonal corporations that exist above any concepts of country or nation. The corporations themselves are basically giant machines or organisms: the individuals within them don't matter, they just keep things running.

It's been a while since I've read Gibson's Sprawl trilogy, but in one of them one of the characters notes that even if terrorists blew up the entire board of directors of a company, it would mean nothing because they would be replaced and the company would just keep on operating. Compare this to a country, where even though if a President dies they will be replaced, it makes a huge difference.

This is why the megacorporation is the perfect vehicle for reinforcing the alienation and isolation of the genre. The protagonists scrabble along on the streets while these vast companies move about far above everything fighting for profit, the actions of the protagonists having almost zero consequences for their world. Cyberpunk stories aren't about the heroes saving the world, they're about anti-heroes surviving and operating inside the system.

Incidentally, this is what separates 80s cyberpunk from the post-cyberpunk of the 90s: the idea that the protagonists can actually accomplish something. The 90s saw a resurgence of more hopeful SF, fueled by the optimism of the internet boom.

[–]AnAnonymousSource 1 point2 points ago

Very thoughtful and well written reply, sir. Here's an upvote!

[–]st_gulik 0 points1 point ago

And yet all the classics in both literature and movies seem to contain them....

[–]econleech -2 points-1 points ago

The point is that not being able to divorce megacorps from cyberpunk is a failure of imagination of the authors. There's no reason cyberpunk must contain megacorps.

[–]st_gulik 4 points5 points ago

Hrm, let's define some words then. Define cyberpunk for me, and then megacorp. Once there we can move forward. :)

[–]econleech 0 points1 point ago

My definition of cyberpunk is a story with settings in a high tech dystopian society with emphasis on information technology.

Megacorp is just a big company.

[–]st_gulik 4 points5 points ago

Cool. The dystopian society bit is why megacorps show up so much in cyberpunk.

The reason being that ultra large corporations are known to wield so much power and influence that they can literally control governments and thus subvert the will of the people, thus creating a dysptoian society where the will of the people is subverted for the will of the megacorporation.

[–]rushmc1 0 points1 point ago

How do you get to "high-tech" without "megacorps"?

[–]econleech 0 points1 point ago

Government? Mad scientist?

[–]artman 0 points1 point ago

Name a title that doesn't. I probably haven't read it.

[–]econleech -5 points-4 points ago

The point is that not being able to divorce megacorps from cyberpunk is a failure of imagination of the authors. There's no reason cyberpunk must contain megacorps.

[–]artman 2 points3 points ago*

Ah, well let me enlighten you with some without a megacorp antagonist... The Ware Tetralogy by Rudy Rucker, The Marîd Audran series by George Alec Effinger, Accelerando by Charles Stross and Dr. Adder by K. W. Jeter.

[–]fingerfunk 1 point2 points ago

Upvote for Stross. Have you read Glass House and Halting State? I adore his writing.

[–]artman 0 points1 point ago

Yes, and if you liked Halting State, read the next standalone of the Detective Investigator Liz Kavanaugh series Rule 34.

[–]fingerfunk 0 points1 point ago

Thanks! I just bought on Kindle and will dig in after I finish this Murakami :-)

[–]ttruth1 1 point2 points ago

Yee haw! That is one of my fave books of all time. Read it the first time when I was 12 (1974). Recently re-read it and it still rocks. Glad you found this classic!

"Quant. Suff."

[–]blankscientist 2 points3 points ago

I just finished it last week. The synesthesia section at the end was amazing (like the rest of it....).

The original title was Tiger! Tiger!. It doesn't have the same ring to it, but after completing it I would say its a more apt title.

[–]ttruth1 1 point2 points ago

As a kid, after reading it, I was totally convinced that jaunting was possible. I'm still disappointed that it's not. :-(

Edit: It was also my entry into the concept of synesthesia. Was nice to know th concept before eating of the mushroom! ;-)

[–]blankscientist 1 point2 points ago

I was a neuroscience major -- I think it enhanced the experience.

[–]LoneWolfPanda 0 points1 point ago

Slough Feg did a song about it a few years ago called Tiger! Tiger! . I think it was 2007 and Homeworlder the album? Anyway, it was a great song and if you enjoyed the book, you may enjoy the song.

[–]notalady 1 point2 points ago

Tiger, tiger,

Burning bright

In the forests of the night...

It's a poem by William Blake. Go look it up.

[–]McPhage 1 point2 points ago

What immortal hand or eye / Could frame thy fearful symmetry?

[–]coppersink 2 points3 points ago

There are certainly some very cool ideas and the end is very satisfying.

[–]bkedelen 1 point2 points ago*

I am sorry to disregard OP's original intention, but can someone recommend some top notch cyber punk to me? It is my all time favorite scifi genre but I am not sure where to go to get more of the good stuff. I have read Bester, all of Gibson, all of Stephenson prior to the boring cycle, and Morgan as well. I even read Shatner although I will deny it in person. Next I am considering trying to get into Ballard and Sterling. What else is out there that I should not miss?

[–]Jack_Flanders 4 points5 points ago*

The original, archetypal (pre?)-cyberpunk novel is Nova by Samuel Delany. Head-jacking into starship sensoria (among other things), decades before Gibson. AWESOME read!; though, if you look at Amazon reviews, some folks (a tiny few) just don't get it. Do read the (extremely few) 1 and 2 star reviews, but put your full faith in the huge majority of 5-stars. It's f***ing wonderful. I read it at age 14 and not again until over 3 decades later. It hadn't lost anything between readings, in fact gained some. Absolutely awesome.

(But, then, do look to Vinge and Stross for modern extensions. They do add something, but Delany still owns the ground he first trod so long ago.)

Haven't read TSMD since age 14,15? ... will do so again soon.

[–]distractthepaladin 1 point2 points ago

I think the truly original story of headjacking into starship sensoria was The Game of Rat and Dragon by Cordwainer Smith, 1955. A human and an intelligent cat link their brains with a starship's sensors and weapons, acting as a gunnery team to defend the ship against enormous predators that dwell in hyperspace.

[–]Jack_Flanders 0 points1 point ago

Awesome story!!!!

That guy did not live long enough, or write enough.

[–]deathmuffin 1 point2 points ago

Damn that Shatner for continuing to succeed at everything forever!

[–]speek 1 point2 points ago

Jon Brunner - Shockwave Rider

[–]TheHumanTornado 1 point2 points ago

Skip Ballard's novels and go for his short stories. Particularly the Best Of collection. If that works for you give Concrete Island and the Atrocity Exhibition a shot.

[–]Mosrael 1 point2 points ago

Reading Count of Monte Cristo right now. I would describe it as super legit.

[–]rushmc1 1 point2 points ago

Try John Brunner and Olaf Stapledon.

And Thomas Hardy's Jude the Obscure.

[–]terminusest 1 point2 points ago

Brunner and Stapledon are great reads, too.

[–]cdesignproponentsist 0 points1 point ago

Huh, ${GF} is enthusing about Jude the Obscure at the moment but for completely different reasons, and I hadn't been that interested...can you sell me on the cyberpunk connection?

[–]terminusest 1 point2 points ago

No one has mentioned it, so I'll put a voice in for The Computer Connection. An interesting piece by Bester - and one which leads directly in my mind to Psychoshop which was a Bester novel finished by Zelazny. The connect? Zelazny's works, especially some of his experimental novels, to me always bear the hint of having read and enjoyed the works of Bester and Sturgeon whose short story collections are excellent. The Computer Connection features a cast of immortals, whose method of becoming immortal is simply not to die. It's frantic and madcap, more so than TSMD, and less intense in it's way but also funnier and fancier.

Then again, my opinion may need for some a grain of salt - I also liked Deus Irae which was a PK Dick with Zelazny, and I enjoyed greatly Donnerjack and Lord Demon which were Zelazny novels finished by Lindskold, or Variable Star where Spider Robinson finished a Heinlein.

My advice on standing in dead men's books: Never go into one of these finished-by-another novels expecting one author or the other's voice to be as clear as in their own works, but I personally enjoy seeing what collaborations come to - especially where one voice is silenced, and the other must finish the sentence. Collaborations in the true sense are difficult, damnable things for writers and they freely admit that they are mostly highly improbable events that only rarely come to fruition - for many reasons, some of which Saberhagen reveals in the foreword to Saberhagen/Zelazny novel Coils (or maybe it was The Black Throne, or maybe in Lord of the Fantastic which is a short-story collection tribute to Zelazny by many authors, including Saberhagen for a foreword).

[–]lobster_johnson 1 point2 points ago

Seconded the vote for The Computer Connection.

[–]speek 1 point2 points ago

If you want more old fiction that predicts Gibson and Stephenson, try Shockwaver Rider

[–]Alacritous 1 point2 points ago

Now go read A Canticle for Leibowitz.

[–]jamesmcm 1 point2 points ago

If you want books like that, I'd recommend reading Looking Backward From 2000 to 1887 and its sequel Equality - I couldn't believe they were written in 1887 and 1890, given the way he predicts the television, credit cards, etc. so well.

[–]Arodien 0 points1 point ago

Just bought this on Amazon. I haven't read any cyberpunk as far as I am aware, but I have read The Count of Monte Cristo and loved it and I also love sci-fi.

[–]danfanclub 0 points1 point ago

Just bought it on kindle after reading this + comments. Wish me luck~

[–]dallasbabcock 0 points1 point ago

I read The Stars My Destination in the third grade, it was my first "adult level book" and it hooked me on sci fi forever, that was in 1970.

[–]Jack_Flanders 0 points1 point ago

yeah; i think i might have read this when i was 14-16, but it's now decades later, and mentions of it have popped up so much lately; i should probably look it up tomorrow am in my local supercool u-book store.... Thanks!

[–]AnAnonymousSource 0 points1 point ago

I finished it a few weeks ago, so I can definitely empathise with that "did I just read something that good?!"-feeling you must be having, and being surprised at how modern it feels considering the publication date.

While the setting is quite exciting, what really impressed me was how much plot, vivid character development and sense of wonder Bester managed to fit into such a small novel. That sense of economy and panache is just admirable; so many bigger science fiction novels feel downright empty in every aspects compared to this one!

Doesn't hurt the prose can be beautiful too:

"It's just your skin making love to me."

[–]ChrisAndersen 0 points1 point ago

I first heard about "Stars" at an SF convention many years ago during a panel when one of the guests said that if you surveyed SF writers the consensus pick for best SF novel of all time would be "Stars". I don't know if he was correct (or still correct), but it was enough to get me to buy the book and it also blew my mind.

[–]workworkwort 0 points1 point ago

Gully Foyle's story is one of the ultimate stories of redemption, I love this book to death.

[–]matts2 0 points1 point ago

Read Kornbluth and Pohl next.

And then read yourself some Kipling. Not cyper anything, not punk, just awesome. Count is one of my all time favorite books, but Kim comes close.

[–]cdesignproponentsist 0 points1 point ago

Yes! The Space Merchants is still superb after all these years. I enjoyed that so much that I've been scared to read the many-years-later-Pohl-solo sequel in case it retroactively destroys the original.

[–]neuromonkey 0 points1 point ago

Interesting. I had the same thought when I read the Raymond Chandler novels, The Big Sleep and The Long Goodbye. The Big Sleep was amazingly modern, and written in 1939.

[–]swartz77 0 points1 point ago

Thanks all. I'm commenting so i can refer to books mentioned here later.

[–]geltoid 0 points1 point ago

Favorite book of all time.

Period.

If I had more time I probably would write much much more praise about this book.

I have 3 different editions and the graphic novel; About ten years ago I wrote an 18 page paper on TSMD and The Demolished Man and how they relate to man's primal instincts; In High School I was writing a 2-part screenplay (obviously the book is set up perfectly for a 2 movies) - but stopped when I learned that a screenplay had already been optioned.

Something struck me the first time I read it (I was young, maybe 15 or 16) and I fell in love with it. I loved the pulpy sci-fi, the character of Gully Foyle was the perfect anti-hero, and the writing/story (especially the synaethasia sections) was right up my alley. I had read The Demolished Man first and thoroughly enjoyed it, but this was so much better.

It has so many great elements in my mind:

Early cyberpunk -

Gulliver Foyle (in all his incarnations) -

Vorga -

Jaunting -

Saul Dagenham's death's head -

Presteign's "basilisk smile" -

Yang Yeovil and Bunny -

PyrE ...

and so much more...

It's unfortunate that this book (and Alfred Bester) has only a 'cult' status, and seems to always fly under the radar (anyone else remember how it was shoe-horned into that 'best sci fi books' list a while back?)

Good Stuff!

[–]nerdshark -1 points0 points ago

I first read The Stars My Destination back in middle school, when a friend bought it for me for my birthday. It has since become one of my absolutely favorite sci-fi books because its more than just technological masturbation.