If American copyright laws can be enforced around the world, why can't American labor and slavery laws be enforced worldwide as well?

harlows_monkeys · 3 months

There are several things going on here.

1. Nearly every country has copyright laws, and due to a series of treaties stretching back to something like 1880, these all generally offer the same kind of protections and durations, and each recognizes the copyrights of works produced by the authors of the others. The US is actually behind in this area, and does not provide as much protection as most of Europe does--considerable handwaving was done to allow the US to participate in some of these treaties.

So, if you are in, say, France, and you are making physical copies of an American author's book, the American author will go after you using French law, not American law.

2. Under general principles of international law, as implemented by a massive collection of treaties between varies pairs of countries, there are many circumstances where if you are in country X and do something that violates the laws of country Y, country X will recognized country Y has the right to prosecute you and will cooperate with capturing you and extraditing you.

To understand exactly what these circumstances are, you'd have to look at the treaties between the two specific countries. In general, what you are alleged to have done has to be recognized as a crime in country X, and there has to have been some contact or connection between you and country Y and between the alleged acts and country Y.

3. There are various international trade agreements that prohibit one country from discriminating against another in trade.

What all this means is that for copyright, the infringer is generally violating local laws, and if we are talking about internet-based infringement possible also has sufficient contacts with the United States to allow application of US law in addition to local laws.

With manufactured goods, on the other hand, the local laws are often much more lax than US law, and if the US tried to pressure them by requiring US companies to only use foreign suppliers that meet US standards, the foreign countries would file complaints under the trade agreements.

autodefenestrator · 3 months

It's evident you're not looking for a serious answer, but here's one anyway:

American laws are designed to protect Americans. American copyright law is designed to protect American content creators in order to foster American creativity. Thus, the US protects American copyrights against international infringers.

American child labor laws are intended to protect American children. I cannot claim to know who are working in Asian and African sweatshops, but I am rather sure American children are not among them.

geewilikers · 3 months

As an Australian I can safely say that if American type labor laws were introduced here there would be riots in the streets and the government would be swiftly removed. We really don't want them.

Sgt_Cortez · 3 months

Because slaves have shitty lobbyists.

happyscrappy · 3 months

It's illegal because China agrees to enforce copyright. Even though they don't do it. If China didn't agree, it wouldn't be illegal in China to ignore copyright.

China doesn't agree to enforce US labor laws. Note they have their own. Also the legal minimum working age in China is 16, this isn't any different than most US states. These laws are, again, not perfectly enforced.

Bullied into signing an extradition treaty? Extradition treaties work both ways. Other countries extradite too, you know.

ErinBear84 · 3 months

The Berne Convention harmonized copyright law in a number of countries so we have a common ground to work with. I suppose the Geneva Convention KIND of does this when it comes to human rights in regards to war rather than labor and/or slavery (I could be wrong), but there's very little money in human rights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention_for_the_Protection_of_Literary_and_Artistic_Works

BizarroKamajii · 3 months

The Berne Convention. Countries agreed--before the existence of the offending corporations--to implement the same copyright laws, and to prohibit unauthorized reproductions of works by any author regardless of national origin.

cynoclast · 3 months

Dude, you do not want American labor laws to be enforced worldwide.

Why? They're shittier than most European ones:

No overtime for "exempt" employees. Which basically means all white collar workers. Have fun working 80 hours a week for 40 hours of pay!
ZERO statutory minimum vacation per year. Basically, you'll be lucky to get three weeks. Most Europeans get three minimum and many companies compete by giving more.
Shit maternity/paternity leave compared to many European nations. We have no statutory minimum. Some European nations give you a year off, paid. The policies vary greatly, except for they're all better than in the U.S.
"Right to work" states. Basically anti-union.
"At will" employment. In other words, you can be fired without notice for no reason.

Now obviously, our labor laws are better than China's. But that's not something to brag about.

k-h · 3 months

The US would have to clean up its own backyard first. 1 in 100 US citizens are in prison and they produce goods effectively by slave labour.

Federal Prison Industries (FPI), .... which manufactures under the trade name UNICOR, manufactures products such as office furniture, clothing, beds and linens, electronics equipment, and eyewear. It also offers services including data entry, bulk mailing, laundry services, recycling, and refurbishing of vehicle components. Twenty-one percent of US manufactured office furniture is produced by prison labor.

woohoo44 · 3 months

theres no money in it

PullTheOtherOne · 3 months

Be careful what you say, or we may have to bring democracy to your country too.

Jadow · 3 months

I really don't want American labor laws in Australia, it would be shit.

DFractalH · 3 months

Thank you very much, but I'll take no part in American labour laws. I'll rather have ours. No need to deteriorate back to the 19th century.

Tufty89 · 3 months

Whoa whoa, you keep your damn labour laws.

Love, Europe.

kpw1179 · 3 months

Because then iphones would be too expensive.

ronaldoregan · 3 months

Because the people against slavery don't pay congress! Woohoo!

blackertai · 3 months

Because those don't make anybody any money.

someswedishgirl · 3 months

Because american companies profit from people in other countries not being paid well and such through outsourcing, or getting really cheap parts from other companies that manufacture there and so forth. Then there's no incentive to try and change it. The primary goal of any company is to create the most profit possible for the shareholders.

iamplasma · 3 months

At the risk of ruining a good old fashioned hate-fest, the reality is that the US government does outlaw the importation of goods made by slave labor, including child slave labor, under 19 USC 1307. Further, the government also goes to the extent of preparing and issuing reports outlining goods it suspects are being made by forced or child labor internationally.

Beyond the above, you have to keep in mind that, as a matter of constitutional and international law, not to mention common sense, the US government can't just go and regulate things with which it has no connection. The US can involve itself in the breach of US intellectual property laws, where those breaches actually affect the US (so running a web site accessible in the US counts). However, it can't very well go and tell the entire world how to regulate their internal labor markets, and threaten charges against anyone who doesn't meet whatever arbitrary standards the US imposes.

If the above were not the case, and every country could go and impose all of its laws on the entire world, then you could hardly travel internationally without expecting to get arrested somewhere. You have to remember, especially when it comes to international relations, you have to set down rules that apply uniformly, you can't just say "Oh, no, countries can't regulate each other's internal affairs, except when the country doing the regulating is in the right". If you do that, well, plenty of Middle Eastern countries think alcohol is a sin and a scourge, should they be allowed to prosecute me based on the fact I've drunk alcohol in a country where it is legal?

lungflucharles · 3 months

implying US has the most liberal labour laws? Love from the UK with our 6.6 weeks paid vacation and high minimum wage.

dueljester · 3 months

Because copyright laws benefit those with money and power, and help them maintain it. American labor and slavery laws on the other hand, would cost the same people money and in America we can't have that happen.

CaptOblivious · 3 months

Because you don't control the politicians with money and they do.

Palchez · 3 months

It makes more sense if you assume that American labor and slavery laws are practiced everywhere outside of the 1st world and have yet to be implemented at home for some odd book-keeping error.

keramos · 3 months

Because then you couldn't get your cheap iPhone.

lnstinkt · 3 months

I just read the headline, so I may miss sth., but as a European, I really don't want american labor laws to be applicable here. Regarding social and work protection we are far more advanced in Europe.

skeletor100 · 3 months

Because they can't defend their intellectual property rights around the world. They can only defend them if the infringer has a link to the US, such as the Megaupload servers in Virginia, or if the country they are in has intellectual property laws.

[deleted] · 3 months

American labor laws are so great that workers often get supplementary payment called a 'tip'.

TheGazelle · 3 months

If you're talking about SOPA, I can tell you it doesn't just automatically apply outside the US.

What it does, is define a "domestic" web site as (basically, you'd have to look up the specific text as I can't recall exactly what it says), any site whose domain name is registered with a registrar based in the US, which is all top-level .com and .org (and possibly others) domains. Their laws then apply to these domestic websites, because while their servers might physically be located elsewhere, the domain name itself is effectively "american", and that's what they legislate on.

It's a rather underhanded way of doing it, but it's most certainly not a case of American laws being enforced all around the world like you seem to think it is.

Tok153 · 3 months

Why would they want em?

cliftonixs · 3 months

Another reason is that you can take down a website because it's just a few clicks away, but to enforce slavery laws, you'd have to have american troops worldwide to keep the peace.

flopus · 3 months

because we don't enforce our laws outside our borders...

We have to ask the country they are in to enforce.

As to child labor laws, most companies just use another company that they control who actually produces the product in order to circumvent the issue. (Think Foxcon and Apple)

R-S · 3 months

Real Answer: Americans generally lack the political will to do good things... or stop bad things ...

err lets just leave it at Americans lack political will...

YGOnewguy · 3 months

not cost effective for the corporations that run 'murricah, if those labor laws get enforced in china, then the prices for designer goods in 'murricah will skyrocket to keep profits high

ZeMilkman · 3 months

Also the U.S. can't enforce shit in Europe. Except for the UK no european country will extradite their own citizens to be tried in the US... Most constitutions do not allow for that.

beetrootdip · 3 months

Other governments have to agree to be bound by the laws of other countries in order for them to be binding. Any developed government that eliminated their own labor laws and instituted the American ones would find themselves voted out of office due to the degradation of workers' rights and thus losing the votes of workers. Developing countries are, like the American government, less concerned with votes, as they are either partial or fake democracies, or not democracies at all.

NeededLogic · 3 months

The countries that use cheap labor make a big buck on doing so and the result is that we, the consumer, get a cheaper product. In the WTO there is a rule that allows bans on products made from slave labor, but so long as the worker is getting paid as little as a penny it is not slave labor. So if you are willing to pay much more for your products you can contact the government and try to get them to make/ enforce international labor laws but there will be strong resistance in developing countries such as India and Brazil who won't be able to afford such a policy.

marvelous_molester · 3 months

Because American copyright laws can't be enforced globally. Have you seen copyright laws being enforced in countries like China or Russia? China is probably one of the biggest global copyright violators in the world. Countries that have close relations help enforce each others laws. Pretty much every developed country in the world that the United States has any leverage with doesn't have issues with slavery and labor.

Countries that like each other help each other, American copyright laws by no means can be enforced globally but only in countries that choose to acknowledge the laws.

elclark94 · 3 months

Because dumb fucks run our country

kim90jg · 3 months

Up Voted. We really live in a disgusting world.

kommie · 3 months

The US never ratified the Fundamental labor Conventions of the ILO.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1136368

http://webfusion.ilo.org/public/applis/appl-byCtry.cfm?lang=EN&CTYCHOICE=0610

Even China has ratified more Labor Laws than the US.

AcidBurns95 · 3 months

Because nobody is buying out governments to stop slavery.

NotTheDude · 3 months

Because these slaves are the millionaire/billionaire buddies of our illustrious politicians.

theDart · 3 months

I bet if you ask that question in the US, their face just steams red with anger and frustration.

beaverteeth92 · 3 months

Because corporations.

kurtgustavwilckens · 3 months

I would not want american labor laws in my country.

FormerlyTurnipHugger · 3 months

Thank god the US cannot enforce their labor laws abroad. They are the closest to slavery you can get in a developed nation.

msut77 · 3 months

It only matters when it comes to making money.

playswithknives · 3 months

There's no profit in that.

iplawguy · 3 months

Cause this:

http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ip/berne/summary_berne.html

matt88 · 3 months

Because your political system is all about money - it has nothing to do with basic human rights (same as most western political systems I suppose - sigh)

porkfatty · 3 months

The poor have shitty lobbyists.

rockwarzz · 3 months

because the corporations that fund, or "bribe," the implementation into taking effect, do not benefit from American laws pertaining to labor and slavery.

GOU_NoMoreMrNiceGuy · 3 months

cuz there's no profit to be had in protecting people from slavery. no lobby sending out their lobbying goons and flashing their cash to legislators.

evils of capitalism. it only pursues that which makes money. whether it's good or bad.

hiccupstix · 3 months

Your analogy would only work if the US were devoting its time and resources to enforcing other countries' copyrights. They're not. The US government is enforcing laws surrounding its own copyrighted content, just as it would likely take action of some sort if the crimes you mentioned were committed against US citizens abroad (as has occurred in the past).

atheistdevil666 · 3 months

Come on bro. It's about the money. Shit, it's time to stop being gullible and naive.

squigs · 3 months

Ironically, they probably could, and more easily. Demand that all imports are made by workers who have a certain minimum standard of living. Much of the western world would praise the US for its ethical stance.

The problem is that Americans like getting cheap stuff.

maadvocate · 3 months

This going to get buried so I don't mind saying it. You are all idiots.

whowhois · 3 months

Because it doesn't benefit the people in power.

maxtopia · 3 months

It's really sad that we live in the year 2012 and people still prioritize the needs of strangers in "their" country and disregard the needs of strangers in other countries. "American laws are for American people!" Fuck these laws then. If they can't even recognize the equality of people throughout the world then they are obviously flawed.

PeanutNore · 3 months

It's hard enough getting our labor laws enforced at home. The republican party would much prefer if Americans worked 16 hour days for $0.15 an hour as well.

mrhames · 3 months

The American people vote with their wallet: look at this sweater, it was only $5 brand new! How do they make it so cheap?

[deleted] · 3 months

Answer: Money.

bailesthehum · 3 months

cuz complying with the copyright laws benefits american business. treating their workers like human beings does not

why_ask_why · 3 months

American laws should prevail everywhere, including China, India, Russia, Iraq, and Iran. Let's send in the troops and enforce the US laws.

trolleyfan · 3 months

Because those laws don't protect big corporations.

samurailawngnome · 3 months

Enforcing American copyright laws makes lobbyists and politicians money.

Not Enforcing American labor laws makes lobbyists and politicians money.

That's how.

Fudgefactor7 · 3 months

And let's reverse this thought a second. Why can't French labor laws be enforced in the USA?

Nine_Of_Nine · 3 months

Brilliant question. I'd like to see this brought up in one of the 18,000 debates the Republicans are having on TV.

rexel99 · 3 months

Just to add my 2c... Because it's not always only about America. As an Australian you can keep your labour laws, we enjoy a much lower rate of unemployment and higher minimum wages and I believe there are a number of countries that enjoy better conditions than the US. One law does not fit all and one ideal is not suitable everywhere. However countries do integrate with trade and IP relationships and thus while the local laws differ, support for IP and knowledge ownership is supported for the most part.

ex_ample · 3 months

Since the top rated comment is totally, completely wrong I thought I would post this at the top level as well.

Basically, there is no reason why they couldn't be. In particular, we could have tariffs for goods that weren't produced in countries with strong labor protections. We could also apply diplomatic pressure to other first world countries to do the same thing, the same way we do with copyright infringement.

There are no restrictions (other then the constitution) on what laws we can pass. We can pass whatever laws affecting whoever we want whenever we want.

There are war crimes laws that allow the U.S to prosecute foreigners who commit crimes against other foreigners in foreign countries. For example Charles Taylor Jr., a Liberian was prosecuted in the U.S. for crimes committed in Liberia

There are laws that make it illegal for Americans to travel overseas to have sex with minors, for example - that protects foreign children.

There are laws that make it illegal for Americans to boycott products from Israel. how does that protect Americans? Bush passed laws that made it illegal for aide groups in Africa to distribute condoms if they were getting funding from the us government! That doesn't help anyone - but ostensibly it was to protect Africans from promiscuity!

Okay so here's the thing. In theory The U.S. can only enforce laws in the U.S. We have to get other countries to enforce our laws if we want them enforced in other countries. That can be through an extradition treaty, like the U.K or by getting other countries to pass laws that are like our laws. ACTA is a good example of that.

In order to get other countries to enforce our laws, we have to put a lot of diplomatic pressure on them. So with Spain, or Sweeden - we put a ton of diplomatic pressure on them to crack down on copyright infringement. In Spain, it worked, despite the fact the population didn't want it*.

However, when it comes to terrorism, the US government does go outside it's borders and just kidnaps or blows up people it thinks are terrorists. An example would be Lakhdar Boumedine who was kidnapped in Bosnia, despite the fact the supreme court in that country determined he wasn't guilty of anything and shouldn't be extradited.

So basically, the answer is "no reason". It could be done, it just isn't. And BTW: it works both ways, foreign countries have used WTO judgments against America to force us to change our laws. Europe was unhappy about the steel subsidies that Bush gave, so they started charging a tariff on farm equipment and oranges -- targeting Iowa and Florida, which are politically important. That caused the Bush administration to drop it's steel tariffs. link

So yeah, again, we can pass whatever laws we want, all that matters is whether or not we can get other countries to agree with us -- but in a lot of cases it's difficult.

d3adbor3d2 · 3 months

It's greed. People for the most part do not take into account externalities--I have the right to buy a $600 iPad, the $2000 diamond ring, etc. but my freedom doesn't care where or how these products were produced. These consequences have been monetized.

Congzilla · 3 months

Because no one would profit from it.

monkat · 3 months

US copyright can not be enforced around the world. Only members of the World Trade Organization. We honor the copyright of other nations, and they honor ours.

MrMojoRisin5211 · 3 months

cause we're a selfish, greedy fucking country and if there's no money in it, the politicians don't give a shit

rahmberg · 3 months

well while I am sure that money plays a large part in it, you could probably look to the Constitution for an answer. Art. 1 Section 8 enumerates the power for Congress to "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries." This could be read, I'm speculating, to mean that it is the job of the federal government to protect patents and copyrights, no matter where. Whereas, Amendment XIII establishes that slavery or involuntary servitude "shall not exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." In terms of labor laws, Congress is allowed to regulate this activity based on the Commerce Clause and the Necessary and Proper Clause. There is good argument that the government should be enforcing our labor laws with American companies that have operations in foreign countries that export to the US. There is probably where the whole money aspect plays a larger role. Slavery is technically outlawed in all member states of the United Nations by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights; though this is not legally binding.

spazzm · 3 months

Please no! Please keep your shitty labour laws to yourself. I enjoy my 6-week holiday, overtime pay, sick leave, and right to join a union, thank you very much.

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