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[–]mpv81 90 points91 points ago

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Thank you for pointing this out. The exasperation wasn't about vegetable or not, it was about the obvious power of a lobbying group to "persuade" our legislators.

[–]Laoshu 24 points25 points ago

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Exactly. While people are technically wrong in saying that pizza was declared a vegetable, it is equally, if not more absurd, and certainly revolting, that such blatant corporate lobbying resulted in Congress ignoring science for yet another payoff. Our Congress is bought, and people need to be upset for the right reason, and more upset.

[–]oneofthe99too 4 points5 points ago

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I thought the satire was pretty clear from the start - then I realize if most of America was aware how things worked as some of us are we'd be a little further along...

[–]Git_Off_Me_Lawn 0 points1 point ago

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I got a lot of flack for joking about the pizza as a vegetable thing even after I pointed out I was being sarcastic. I tended to think it was kids who need to look smart on the internet by proving someone "wrong".

[–]joeanon 0 points1 point ago

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What happened is a handful of politicians tried to hold up the appropriations bill over this bullshit issue. Since federal lunch guidelines are not legally binding it would have been rather pointless to hold the bill up over such a small issue. Only 20% of schools even bother to follow these guidelines.

[–]justanothercommenter -1 points0 points ago

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What happened was that two tablespoons of tomato paste was considered a serving of vegetables, and therefore, school pizza qualified. New regulations were introduced requiring pizza to have a quarter cup of tomato paste to qualify as a vegetable

Wait .... so ...

Congress tried to increase the amount of tomato sauce on pizzas (thus, increasing childhood obesity by requiring the consumption of MORE food product). ConAgra convinced them that was stupid (thus, cutting childhood obesity).

Right?

[–]Wet_Toilette_Paper 4 points5 points ago

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Not exactly. Pizza currently satisfies the vegetable quotient because it has that tomato paste on it. A quarter cup of tomato paste is way more than you can (or really should) put on the current slices of pizza. Either their manufacturing process would have to change to allow for the different type of pizza (expensive for the company) or they would have to give up serving pizza when trying to meet guidelines of "how many vegetables must be in a school lunch."

It's actually much easier to serve different vegetables than a quarter cup of tomato paste, but it's easier to ship out those frozen, reheatable pizzas.

Essentially, it's not just the amount of food, and while their argument may have been, "We'll be decreasing childhood obesity by not feeding them more, as this bill would have us do!" That is a bald-faced lie. They did not want to increase the amount of tomato paste as it would make their current product inedible and require that instead of pizza, a different "vegetable" would be served.

Pizza is easily transported, stored, and cooked, so they were against this reform.

[–]littlelondonboy 2 points3 points ago

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No. Increasing the amount of tomato sauce on pizza would mean that school kids would have to eat less pizza to get the same serving of veg.

ConAgra saw that this would cost them more money (by having to use more tomato sauce) so lobbied bribed Congress, who took a blind eye to scientific evidence and bowed to ConAgra.

[–]Scarbane 0 points1 point ago

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The Pastafarians are at it again...

[–]zkatkin 7 points8 points ago

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TIL: Schools and congress consider two tablespoons of tomato sauce is a serving of vegetables?! No wonder it took me almost 25 years to figure out how to eat right! - PALEO!

-EDIT: I bet the "pizza" they're referring to uses the cheapest, most processed "tomato sauce" available...

[–]Wet_Toilette_Paper 1 point2 points ago

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Also, the cheese is as old and processed as possible, probably nothing more than flavored preservatives, and the bread is freeze-dried, frozen, reheated, and is mostly indigestable fiber.

[–]Butterbemme 0 points1 point ago

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I have a question. Why is pizza considered unhealthy? There are other kinds than salami pizza. Whats wrong with a produce of flour, yeast, salt, water, tomatoes, corn, cheese, pineapple and ham, for example?

[–]yaen 2 points3 points ago

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Sodium, added fat, sugar, the fact that it's simple carbs, etc. This whole debate is about tomato paste, just once ingredient in pizza sauce (you don't want to eat pizza that uses tomato paste alone as sauce--it needs spices, of course, but also water, fat, sugar, etc to be palatable). I eat pizza about twice a month. Usually I want a dinner with way more fiber and way less calories. I understand I can technically get the same nutrition from eating a shitload of pizza as a wrap, but there's also a lot I'm not getting from pizza that I'm getting in the wrap, and I can control the quantity of actual nutrition versus calories. And I like to think I'm older and wiser than my 15 year old self, who did eat pizza as often as possible. If anyone had told me it was somehow counted as eating vegetables, lord help me...

I do think adding veggies and protein helps. I'm vegan, so my pizzas are probably as healthy as they get, but still, that's a lot of simple carbs and fat with not enough pay off to make it all worth it, imo.

[–]Butterbemme 0 points1 point ago

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Ok, but what fat? Look at the increditents I listed and google the nutritional value of pizza. Pizza can be way below 10% fat. Home made pizza, that is. Manufacturers may put lots of other shit in there, i just wanted to say that pizza isn't inherently unhealthy.

[–]yaen 1 point2 points ago

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I agree, pizza doesn't have to be inherently fattening. Many of my pizzas are no more than a crust with arugula salad on top (those I think you could eat every day and LOSE weight). You could do a tortilla with light sauce and veggies and little or no cheese and that would be a light snack.

Real cheese is fat, with some benefits thrown in. Milk evolved to be fattening--it's meant to have enough fat to help a 90lb calf into a 2000lb adult. If you're not using it at all, then I'd say as long as the rest of your calories are good, you're not gonna get fat off pizza, even with a deep crust. Even alternative cheeses have fat, though--again, that's the point.

Fat is great.

I agree though, pizza isn't inherently unhealthy, because there are so many ways to make it healthy. But why is it considered unhealthy? Because basically no one except the very health conscious, or vegans, eat it that way.

[–]Tarkaan[S] 2 points3 points ago

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Because 2 slices of pizza is a quarter of a loaf of bread. That much fat and carbs just isn't healthy.

[–]wetsu 0 points1 point ago

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Once a month seems about right.

[–]poli_ticks 37 points38 points ago

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Abso-fucking-lutely. And as an added bonus, all those fat children reared on processed pseudo-food and CAFO-raised Frankenmeat will develop all manner of chronic diseases as adults, and will become a captive market for Big Pharma.

Americans, you are being fucked over so many different ways it's not even funny. The whole system is completely FUBAR.

[–]crilen 8 points9 points ago

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No, you're wrong it's not FUBAR. It seems FUBAR to the working class, but it is in fact quite organized. We just can't see it all.

                         Yet.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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Ever.

[–]lifeislame 22 points23 points ago

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In the meantime, come on over and help declare Congress a vegetable.

[–]zetec 5 points6 points ago

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This is brilliant.

[–]artiface 2 points3 points ago

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That's too nice a thing to call congress. Only 12% of people like congress, vegetables are much more popular and tasty.

[–]gloomdoom 12 points13 points ago

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This is really the only 'pizza is a vegetable' submission that matters because it bypasses the 'omg' and gets straight to the point. It isn't about anything other than exactly what money can buy when it gets stuffed into congressional pockets.

It is proof positive that you can get anything you want, no matter how ridiculous, if you buy it from the thieves in congress.

[–]not_thecookiemonster 0 points1 point ago

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It is proof positive that you can get anything you want, no matter how ridiculous, if you buy it from the thieves in congress.

You didn't see the sign?

[–]magicwalnuts 5 points6 points ago

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Man, the fact that this isn't one of the highest voted posts is fucking pitiful.

[–]joeanon -1 points0 points ago

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The fact nobody on this thread has any clue what's going on it's pathetic. You guys have all your facts so ass backward it's insane. Blaming the USDA who are the ones proposing better nutritional guidelines. Not realizing that only 20% of states follow these guidelines. AND then not realizing the Feds have no control over state schools lunch programs other than it must meet basic food safety standards.

States do this shit.. fed offer funding incentives for states who meet certain guidelines. They cannot force the hand of the states to improve lunches currently.

[–]magicwalnuts 2 points3 points ago

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True, but 2 things: who says lobby's can't influence the fed to not give funding incentives to follow guidelines? That's easy. And 2, who says lobby's don't influence state politics?

[–]waterboysh 4 points5 points ago

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During my public schooling years I took my lunch to school for elementary school. For middle school and high school, my parents made little enough for me to qualify for the free school lunch. I had a slice of pizza and a scoop of french fries every day for lunch for 7 years because that's all the free lunch students could pick from. Reduced lunch could swap out the pizza for a hamburger, and kids whose parents paid had a few more choices.

Now... I have a fast metabolism and I was on the swim team, so I was burning more calories than I was eating, but most of the other kids I knew were the exact opposite. I did see quite a few of them get bigger and bigger over the years, and I blame the school food for a portion of it. I blame the kids partly too for staying inside to play video games and not going outside to play sports or exercise...

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

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Pizza, in general, is very cheap. That makes it a great "food program" food, from the perspective of food program "nutritionists". These same people think processed meats - chicken nuggets, fish sticks, "Salisbury steaks", etc - can be classified as "healthy meats". They encourage food program schools to feed kids white bread. All kind of weird shit qualifies as vegetables. Why? Because these foods are cheap as fuck.

[–]joeanon -1 points0 points ago

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I gotcha but what do you think most of them eat at home? Are we really supposed to use the federal government to feed kids better than their parents.

Why not ask the parents themselves to pressure the schools ? It's really 100% a state issue. The feds just bribe schools with funding incentives. There are not nutritional laws... just suggestions.

This whole thing is ridiculous moot point filled with outraged reidiots who know nothing about how the system works, or so it would appear.

[–]wekiva 4 points5 points ago

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It's about whose brother-in-law is making/selling the pizza.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points ago

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It's about misdirection.

[–]raskolnikov- 5 points6 points ago

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This thread is making me hungry for pizza.

[–]willanthony 2 points3 points ago

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AND don't forget about all the money the health care industry is going to make off of all these fat kids.

[–]Judge_Elihu_Smails 2 points3 points ago

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Children are obese because the government fucked up royally by recommending a ridiculous 300g of carbohydrates a day. A bunch of bureaucrats took the poorly sourced lipid hypothesis and erected an insulin spiking, fattening diet plan that has poisoned the country for decades.

[–]sculptedpixels 2 points3 points ago

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It's really a fantastic contrast: you're absolutely right, from fracking to pizza as a vegetable and dozens of other examples, the corporate structure embraces anti-science, anti-health, anti-environmental modus simply because that's what maximizes shareholder value (and CEO bonuses).

Ironically, without good science, healthy employees and wise management of natural resources, corporations are fucked. Capitialism is fucked; societies will swing back in the other direction.

Not all companies are guilty of this; not all capitalist societies allow their social structures to be eroded to the point we find ourselves in.

[–]TheQuantumDot 2 points3 points ago

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"Senator, I will pay your campaign and the 'charities' whose boards you sit on FIFTY MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS if you will say that my old smell-hound Buck is an environmentally-friendly vehicle. I could do with the tax breaks. While you're at it, you might get my wife's shar-pei reclassified as a second home. And we have a cat who looks an awful lot like a medical professional and who helps out a bit around the house by ensuring that we have little vermin."

"What's in it for me?"

"Uh...fifty million dollars?"

"And?"

"Dollars, senator."

"Oh dollars! Sorry, we've been using peppercorns in my community for quite some time, ever since I reclassified them as legal tender. Yes, dollars will be fine."

[–]W00ster 16 points17 points ago

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But Free Markets (Tm) will solve all these problems, no laws are needed according to conservolibetarians

[–]Twag86 9 points10 points ago

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actually more democrats voted for this than republicans

[–]brkello 6 points7 points ago

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That's pathetic. Truly disappointed in every individual that voted for this.

[–]lameth 1 point2 points ago

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They voted for the spending bill that this was afixed to. I'm not sure how much discussion was done regarding all the additions to the bill (we already know they don't read it), but the real villains in this scenario are those that put it in there.

[–]W00ster 1 point2 points ago

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I seriously have no idea why you are telling me this unless you think I would be disappointed hearing this when in reality, there is little to no real difference between R and D, both are two conservative political umbrella organizations which has nothing in common with a real political party.

Both R and D are utterly incapable of resolving any serious issues, the US political system is a horrendous mess I wouldn't want my worst enemy to be caught in! It's by far, the worst of any civilized countries!

[–]TheCid 0 points1 point ago

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By numbers or percentage?

[–]WillHK 2 points3 points ago

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Both sadly.

[–]zimm0who0net -3 points-2 points ago

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dude, seriously... You're in /r/politics here. This is not the place for facts and reason.

[–]StrangeStrangeLuck 5 points6 points ago

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Yea because the free market is responsible for welfare lunches and nutritional requirements.

Nobody I know will be consuming any more pizza because congress classified it as a vegetable.

[–]uhhhclem 2 points3 points ago

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"Welfare lunches." Nice talk.

[–]WillHK 2 points3 points ago

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Fucking lazy kids need to get a job cleaning our schools instead of taking free lunches straight out of my pocket!

[–]uhhhclem 1 point2 points ago

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Don't they have mines to work in?

[–]scorpionmintred 2 points3 points ago

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Free Markets would solve it if parents voted with their dollar. I'm not saying the government isn't the hippopotamus on this one as well, but for ass' sake, if a school is serving pizza and french fries all the time then the parents need to stop letting their kids eat the cafeteria food. Or lobby and vote on school boards at the local level.

And yes, if the parents can't afford to send their kids to school with a bag lunch or can't afford higher school taxes for better-than-federal-minimum cafeteria food then their kids are going to eat shitty food both at school and at home. ConAgra makes cheap slop, and people buy it.

And, finally, adding some extra tomato sauce to pizza doesn't really make it all that much more healthy. It certainly doesn't put less calories into it so as to curb the obesity epidemic. Despite how dastardly it sounds, ConAgra didn't exactly rape classrooms full of children with this.

[–]goblueM 2 points3 points ago

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the "free market" concept completely fails in this sense, because it assumes people are A ) intelligent B ) care about their health C ) are aware of these issues D) care enough to take action and E) are informed enough to take action

Its frustrating, because bag lunches are cheap and (usually) better than school cafeteria food. Just poor parenting in general

[–]Aeolis 6 points7 points ago*

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Well you know what the fix for this is? Obviously not free market, you discounted that in your second paragraph when you cited parents can't afford bag lunches.

The fix higher taxes on the rich. The only way for the children to actually get what they need, because it obviously isn't going to come from anywhere else, is the government, and the the funding from that will come from a reduction of tax breaks on the rich.

In regard to your final paragraph, the issue isn't that the difference in tomato sauce really means that much health wise, the issue is that when even the slightest hike in regulation was put in by the executive branch, ConAgra swept in and lobbied the death out of it.

The solution to all of this is to get money out of campaign contributions and enact anti-lobbying laws. The people need to gain control over Congress and the rest of the government. This does NOT mean doing away with government intrusion altogether.

[–]scorpionmintred 0 points1 point ago

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First, I should qualify that I don't believe in a 100% free, laissez-faire market. That would lead to totalitarian monopolies, and the loss of a representative government (which is always a concern for the people of a representative democracy, but I digress).

However, in our practical execution of a (mostly) free market, we have managed to feed just about 300 million people to the point of obesity, and we've done it cheaply. My second paragraph didn't discount the free market -- I guess if you wanted to add hyperbole to it, it would say that the poor are screwed as far as health, but at least they're not starving thanks to the free market.

[–]Aeolis 0 points1 point ago

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So you disagree with my solution to the problem? I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

While the poor are fed with our current system, it doesn't mean that their lives and the quality of their food can't be better.

[–]scorpionmintred 0 points1 point ago

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Oh, I was only arguing with your first paragraph and clarifying what I wrote. Terribly sorry.

Higher taxes on the rich? Exactly how high? Exactly how much finer a food should the poor eat at the cost of the rich? I mean, once we have the poor eating lots of vegetables, then wouldn't it further benefit them to eat organic, pesticide-free vegetables and the leanest of free-range meat? OK, I exaggerate. But my point is that there are plenty of things the rich could pay for, but adequate food is already cheap enough for poor people to afford.

I never said that I was a huge fan of ConAgra's business methods. However, people buy their food products, they have lots of money, they want to keep costs down, they lobby the government. I'm also not a fan of lobbying, but I don't see anything horribly immoral here as all it did was make pizza-eating kids have slightly less tomato sauce.

I do agree with you insofar as campaign contributions go, but in lobbying I do see an equilibrium (all being one that suffers from occasional unsettling turbulence) in the balance of power between the economy and the government. Both are for the people, and of the people. We're represented in both.

[–]andrewpahl 0 points1 point ago

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This is just an idea, and maybe I am wrong here, but I would imagine that situations like this go after the poorest first. I would imagine that parents who can afford to actually pay for their kids to eat at school would stand up against this before the parents who can't afford, and get school subsidies for their children to eat at school for less or free. After all, doesn't everything that happens like this tend to attack the poor first?

[–]joeanon 0 points1 point ago

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It's just lazy parents imo. Parents could EASILY get together and demand better quality lunches, but they they might have to actually pay for them. Kids aren't really eating any worse at school than home, so it's a moot point. I literally know adults who still thing vegetables are gross. They all have health problems.

[–]Wet_Toilette_Paper 1 point2 points ago

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Which is why we need education so we can teach these fuckers that chicken fingers are not acceptable for every damn meal of the day. French fries are not acceptable baby-food.

Instead of trying to change things, you're throwing up your hands and claiming, "They're just too stupid! We can't do anything! Leave them in the dust!" That's a really unfair judgement to pass and as a society it is in our best interest to help others who don't know better or can't do better on their own.

[–]LibertariansLOL -3 points-2 points ago

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what does this have to do with free markets retard

[–]brkello 3 points4 points ago

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In a way, I kinda see what you are saying. This has to do with government standards and the ability for a corporation to buy whatever policy that they want. But if free market was in play, it would be the same thing...if not worse. Companies would provide the cheapest food at the highest profit regardless of nutritional content. So as bad as it is now, it would be worse under a completely free market.

[–]modernprogressive 5 points6 points ago

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Companies would provide the cheapest food at the highest profit regardless of nutritional content.

In a free market, who would buy that and why would it be the fault of the supplier and not the purchaser?

It's not a free market, that's why pizza is a vegetable.

[–]thelandsman55 4 points5 points ago

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In addition to high profit, these foods would also be the cheapest meaning that some poor people would have no choice but to buy it. Even the greatest champions of the free market such as Adam Smith admitted that it totally fucks over the poor.

[–]StrangeStrangeLuck 0 points1 point ago

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LMAO

[–]joeanon 0 points1 point ago

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No.. they will provide the cheapest food at the highest prices because that makes more money. There isn't room for competition in STATE food contracts.

The federal government doesn't even regulate the food in schools... they just make suggestions and I believe if the schools follow those suggestions they get more funding however ... only 20% of schools even bother to meet those guidelines.

So really reddit.. wtf are you even getting upset about?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/did-congress-declare-pizza-as-a-vegetable-not-exactly/2011/11/20/gIQABXgmhN_blog.html

[–]Xynga 7 points8 points ago

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The sad fact is that even if congress didn't say that 1/8th of a cup of Tomato paste was a serving of vegetables, and the pizza company was forced to increase it to a quarter cup, the kids would still be eating Pizza.

That is what we are arguing over, which is entirely the wrong argument. It is not about Pizza vs healthy foods, it is Pizza vs. Pizza with more tomato paste.

We are an obese nation, and should teach our kids about nutrition and feed them healthy foods. Can they have Pizza once in a while? Sure. Let them enjoy their metabolism while it lasts... but I went to school with PB&J almost every day throughout school. Kids don't need much more than that honestly.

[–]zahlman 6 points7 points ago

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but I went to school with PB&J almost every day throughout school.

That's supposed to be healthier than pizza every day?

There's more to this than portion size, you know.

[–]Xynga 1 point2 points ago

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My point was that yes, a sandwich is healthier than a school lunch comprised of chicken nuggets, pizza or french fries.

Peanut butter is good for you btw. MUCH better than pizza.

[–]zahlman 2 points3 points ago

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I think you're going to have to support that argument.

[–]Xynga 3 points4 points ago

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Where should I start?

There is a lot of fat in peanut butter but it is mostly good fat. 80% good fat as opposed to 30% good fat in mozzarella cheese. With sandwich's you can pick healthier breads than the nutritionally void pizza crusts that are served in school. Not even close if there is pepperoni on the pizza.

health.harvard.edu

cnn.com

Comparing fats

[–]mondaytuesdaywednesd 0 points1 point ago

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What's wrong with pepperoni?

[–]Treysef 7 points8 points ago

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It's not about the pizza at all. It's about the corporate influence over our government. ConAgra was going to lose a little bit of profit so they threw money at Congress so it wouldn't happen.

[–]Tarkaan[S] 2 points3 points ago

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Thank you.

[–]thepotatoman23 4 points5 points ago

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The reason the American Frozen Food Institute lobbied for it is because if they didn't then schools would have to serve more vegetables in place of pizza in order to continue to receive funding. The only choice kids have in the matter is either eating their vegetables or throwing half thier lunch away and going hungry.

So yeah it is Pizza vs healthy foods.

[–]WildGroupOfDerpinas 0 points1 point ago

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Where I went to school if there were vegetables included they were usually overcooked, beige colored instead of green, and generally unappetizing in the first place. Even the ones that came from the cans. Pizza and chicken nuggets and french fries were pretty much the only edible options available that I could keep down. I think this is the bigger problem with school lunch - we try to make a meal so cheap that we forget how to make it taste good.

[–]Xynga 0 points1 point ago

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That is actually not true at all.

I was watching C-SPAN when they were talking about this and the people lobbying for 2 tablespoons of tomato paste to be considered a vegetable were showing what Pizza would look like if they had to double the amount of sauce.

The only thing that would have changed was the amount of sauce on Pizza. That's it.

[–]joeanon -2 points-1 points ago

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Food selection is up to the states.. not the feds. The feds just have suggested nutritional intake and likely the school gets a little more money to follow it.

It's the state run schools that chose what kids get... not feds.

[–]Xynga 2 points3 points ago

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If you were correct, this would not be an issue at all.

The states have to abide by the federal standards to receive federal funding.

[–]taysam 1 point2 points ago

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Oh gosh the things I remember eating in school lunches... like pinkish fish fingers... barf...

[–]iratusamuru 1 point2 points ago

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It's about politics to the extent that the "politics" citizens experience and see is a show put on by corporations to create both an illusion of voter control and a feeling of individual powerlessness to force people to conform to preset standards. Let us then make a standard of our own.

[–]modernprogressive 1 point2 points ago

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Why does the federal government have this kind of control over school lunches to begin with?

ConAgra couldn't be subverting this power if it didn't exist to begin with.

[–]tasuret 1 point2 points ago

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They are public schools. Ideally, the federal government would make sure all kids eat healthy, because god knows what would happen if Texas or Alabama could design their own meal program.

[–]modernprogressive 0 points1 point ago

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Ideally, the federal government would make sure all kids eat healthy

Pizza is now a vegetable. That's workin' out really great! Americans are so healthy!

because god knows what would happen if Texas or Alabama could design their own meal program.

They aren't federal public schools, they are state public schools.

[–]tasuret 0 points1 point ago

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They aren't federal public schools, they are state public schools.

That is where you are wrong. They get federal funding, so the federal government tells them what to do.

[–]modernprogressive 1 point2 points ago

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How's that working out for us?

[–]tasuret 0 points1 point ago

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Well, our population voted the current Representatives into office.

[–]modernprogressive 0 points1 point ago

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50 years since the Department of Education has been in existence, and over a trillion spent. How's that federal contribution to education working out for us?

[–]tasuret 2 points3 points ago

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It's all they've got. Maybe instead of bitching about it here, you can go out and vote. Go protest.

[–]Tarkaan[S] 2 points3 points ago

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Your timeline is all fucked up here. The DoED was created by Carter as a spinoff from HEW, created in the 20s. Can you clarify what you're talking about?

[–]joeanon 0 points1 point ago

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Nope.. the federal government does not regulate school lunches. They merely make suggestions and back them up with funding incentives. Serve a little better food and you get a little more $$$.

It's states who chose to do this and the pizza things was a very very very tiny part of this entire bill. It's complete a non issue since feds don't even have the authority to make states meet these guidelines.

In 2007 20% of schools met these guidelines and the rest said FU federal government we dun want your socialism.. or the incentives were too low to fight off the bribes to the schools and state congressmen.

"Minnesota's U.S. senators and six of its eight representatives intervened or voted in some way to block a rule proposed by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) that would have stopped a slice of pizza from being counted as a vegetable serving in school cafeterias."

I should get a fucking medal for exposing this massive reddit fueled lie.

[–]tasuret 1 point2 points ago

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That's... what I said, you ignorant slut.

  • Feds say "have some money, but you do what we say"

  • School says "I want some fucking money"

  • School follows guidelines

  • School gets money

Again,

They get federal funding → Feds tell them what to do

[–]nox_fox 1 point2 points ago

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It's about complacency and avoiding the truth

[–]orrery 1 point2 points ago

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America today isn't about facts or what's right and wrong.

It is about a post modernist sophomoric circle jerk to see if they can redefine what the meaning of the word 'is' is.

[–]Qoloqop 1 point2 points ago

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It's the same thing as Europe saying that water doesn't hydrate you.

[–]xoomerfy 1 point2 points ago

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My next protest sign, "I'm out here because Pizza is a Vegetable."

[–]Tarkaan[S] 0 points1 point ago

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"I'm out here because gulf fish is 'safe' to eat."

[–]xoomerfy 0 points1 point ago

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My last sign was my sweater, it says "bad money drives out good." and "If your not remembered, you never existed."

[–]theplungerofdoom 1 point2 points ago

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Does anybody know the name of the bill? I want to check my representative's voting record to see who I can give an ear full (or eye full, as it would be written. In fact, it would probably only be some schmuck paid to read it anyway.) over this.

[–]Dezyphr 1 point2 points ago

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I had seen this a few times and because i was an Australian had heard no explanation why pizza was a vegetable.

I just thought the time had come where meme's had finally run out of innovation

so thank you and upvotes

[–]dro0x9d9 1 point2 points ago

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The corporations that are owned by the 1% have got the United States by the balls and will destroy this country if we let it go on any further.

[–]WealthyIndustrialist 1 point2 points ago

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Corporatism

That word... it doesn't mean what you think it means.

[–]nonvivant 1 point2 points ago

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But how else are we supposed to make the link to something Mussolini probably never said so that we can inch ever so closer to Godwinning the whole thing?

It doesn't matter if the reality is independently terrible! If it's not a terrible I can call fascism, I don't know how to critique it!

[–]DarthShadeHunter 1 point2 points ago

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Or, the parents could pack a lunch for their kids and not be at the whim of the school district, ConAgra or anyone else.

[–]Wet_Toilette_Paper 1 point2 points ago

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The more I see of this, the more I realize people don't know that most school-kid's parents suck. Do you not care about the kids whose parents don't give a shit? Do the kids deserve the punishment for their parents' not giving a shit? That's who this legislation hurts. The parents who care will find a way around this, but it gets harder and harder on them. Make up your mind: Should schools school everybody, or do we need to make a disjointed, two-tier society of children whose parents care and children whose parents don't?

[–]DarthShadeHunter 0 points1 point ago

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There are exactly three kids on this planet I care about, my nieces. Why should I care about some kid if his or her own parents don't?

[–]Wet_Toilette_Paper 0 points1 point ago

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Because that other kid is going to grow up a drug dealer who your nieces buy weed from.

Your nieces are going to interact with these people, whether you like it or not. I'm not saying you have to care directly about the other kids, but what about the kids whose parents do care, but they don't have any other choice? What you just said doesn't hold for them.

Now how do you tell the difference when you meet the kid at school because they're your niece's friends and you have no idea about their home life?

[–]brand0bot 1 point2 points ago

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Pizza is highly processed; the sauce likely is too (at least in many school districts). Keep in mind that food processing is a current area of controversy, particularly when referring to the diets of children. I believe it would be best to exclude formulations which can be exploited in such a way that the net benefit of having a vegetable portion is totally negated. I.e. The poor nutrition of pizza out ways the strengths of its vegetable component.

[–]adx 0 points1 point ago*

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The sauce isn't processed that much. Crush tomatoes, add a bit of salt, can or freeze it and it will last just about forever. Same with the dough. Most of the processing in pizza comes in making the cheese.

[–]brand0bot 2 points3 points ago

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Fair enough, I'll figure you know enough about pizza to defend the sauce. I worry about preservatives as well as the extra sweeteners which make the pizza more palatable to children. Simply from reading the back of a frozen pizza one can see there is far more than expected within the box.

[–]adx 2 points3 points ago

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I'm looking at the ingredients of a Red Baron 4 Cheese Frozen Pizza that I found on their website and there's nothing scary. It's a bunch of big words, but they mostly things you know as something else (e.g. ascrobic acid which is vitamin C). About the only thing that sucks about it is they use vegetable shortening as the binder in the dough. Otherwise, it's pretty straight forward pizza with no added sugar or scary preservatives.

[–]brand0bot 1 point2 points ago

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I looked up the ingredients for digiorno frozen four cheese just to do some reference. The following ingredients are used primarily for enhanced emulsification of the dough; Sodium aluminium phosphate (synthetic), DATEM (synthetic) and least of which, Sodium stearoyl lactylate (least as it appears mostly safe, although we are speaking about children still).

[–]Tarkaan[S] 3 points4 points ago

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I'm going to cut your argument short:

This is Schwan's school pizza.

Tony's® 4x6 Cheese 100% Mozz IW must provide 2 oz(s) equivalent meat/meat alternate, 2 servings of bread/bread alternate, and 1/8 cup vegetable. Portion to provide a minimum of 300 calories with no more than 15 fat grams. Must contain less than 940 milligrams sodium. Case pack of 72 per case. CN Label required. Acceptable Brand: Tony's® 78817 .

[–]brand0bot 2 points3 points ago

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I'm going to reaffirm my initial statements based on this evidence. Thank's Tarkaan. The amount of modified ingredients in this particular school pizza is quite astounding.

[–]Tarkaan[S] 2 points3 points ago

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Schwan's is Minnesota, so they might serve the north and midwest only (I don't know that for a fact). I think this is ConAgra's, but they have hundreds of brands and no pictures to help.

[–]joeanon 0 points1 point ago

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Thats funny cuz 'Minnesota's U.S. senators and six of its eight representatives intervened or voted in some way to block a rule proposed by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) that would have stopped a slice of pizza from being counted as a vegetable'

[–]adx 0 points1 point ago

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Show me the modified ingredients? It has one preservative in it and that's it.

[–]taysam 0 points1 point ago

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Most of a school's food items are bought at the beginning of a semester and stored in freezers - that's frozen food kept for ~4 months. Meat included. There's no way any part of it isn't processed to prevent rotting.

[–]adx 5 points6 points ago

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Meat in a commercial freezer for 6 months is perfectly fine. You have to remember that a commercial freezer does not repeatedly perform defrost cycles like a residential freezer to keep frost-free.

From the USDA:

Is Frozen Food Safe? Food stored constantly at 0 °F will always be safe. Only the quality suffers with lengthy freezer storage. Freezing keeps food safe by slowing the movement of molecules, causing microbes to enter a dormant stage. Freezing preserves food for extended periods because it prevents the growth of microorganisms that cause both food spoilage and foodborne illness.

[–]taysam 0 points1 point ago

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I didn't say it wasn't safe. I don't have much respect for the way the USDA regards school lunches but I don't think they would serve us rotten food. Still, doesn't sound very appetizing to me.

[–]joeanon 1 point2 points ago

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USDA = U.S. Department of Agriculture and they are the ones who proposed that pizza not be counted as a vegetable.

Also they don't control school lunches.. ALSO the fed don't control school lunches.

States are the ones making these decisions. Obama is trying to used the federal government to set a higher guideline, which I expect if a school follows they get a little more money from the Feds. Congress blocked the USDA attempt to increase the quality of these guidelines.

Man reddit you couldn't fuck your understand of this story up more if you tried. ... oh you probably could but this is like mass ignorance.

Blame the States and the parents !

[–]joeanon 1 point2 points ago

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You can freeze food without processing your know... like veggies particularly. That's the benefit of frozen veggies over canned... little to no additives.

[–]taysam 0 points1 point ago

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I know - but for pizza, the dough can't be frozen for long without preservatives.

[–]kabukistar 0 points1 point ago

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"The ingredients were: fresh pureed tomatoes, water, salt, and sodium benzoate used to retard spoilage. Once again, if I'm not mistaken, this can contained tomato paste."

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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The sauce isn't processed that much. Crush tomatoes, add a bit of salt,

You forgot the High Fructose Corn Syrup.

[–]Tarkaan[S] 4 points5 points ago

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I posted links to Schwan's Tony's and ConAgra's Max school pizzas. Neither have HFCS listed as an ingredient.

[–]adx 0 points1 point ago

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Why would you put HCFS in tomato paste? Tomatoes are pretty sweet to begin with.

[–]skater95 1 point2 points ago

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The mass produced, cheap tomatoes they use for foods like this are surprisingly bland. They're grown for their hardiness during transport and shelf life, rather than taste. You have to buy a decently grown (or specialty strain or heirloom) tomato for that sweet taste.

[–]adx 2 points3 points ago

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You're thinking of tomatoes that are shipped to grocery stores. Tomatoes that are canned or puréed are picked fresh and processed on site. The same is true for frozen fruit and vegetables.

[–]joeanon -2 points-1 points ago

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No it doesn't .. you can make a healthy enough pizza, but you have to use quality and ideally fresh ingredients.

The way it should work is we should serve them fresh food only. That show Food Revolution would give you guys some insight.. this is 100% a state issue and has nothing to do with the feds. Feds do not have any say over school lunches other than offering funding incentives which the schools in no way are required to take or thus do not have to in any way meet these nutrition guidelines.

While I understand it seems like a dick move I feel like nobody here has any idea what they are talking about on this issue. I also feel the bill likely had a bunch of other stuff in it. It's well known Dems and GOP support farming subsidies and this is just another example of that IMO.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]Tarkaan[S] 7 points8 points ago

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Scientists say it's 1/4 cup. Lobbyists say it's 1/8 cup. I believe the scientists. Not the lobbyists.

See, I don't need to be an expert on pizza to know that we just got sold out.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]Tarkaan[S] 6 points7 points ago

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I'm not being hostile. If you want to do your own research, start with the authors of the bill that passed. Keep in mind that unless you have an advanced degree in some kind of applied food science, you probably won't understand the research really.

I can't possibly be an expert on every decision my government makes that affects me. The only think I can do is trust the experts who made the decision. Scientists made it 1/4 cup because 1/8 cup wasn't healthy enough. Lawyers changed it back.

Do you trust our health choices to scientists, or lawyers?

[–]tasuret 2 points3 points ago

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Lobbyists changed it back. Lawyers are the people that fight over which it really is.

[–][deleted] ago*

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[deleted]

[–]Tarkaan[S] 5 points6 points ago

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Did you try to do any research, or are you just trying to get someone to give you a source?

[–]zahlman 4 points5 points ago

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A serving of vegetables is "1 cup of raw leafy vegetables, 1/2 cup of other vegetables, cooked or chopped raw, or 3/4 cup of vegetable juice". Source: I went on Google and typed in "serving of vegetables usda". This isn't hard.

Tomato paste doesn't quite fit these categories because it's dehydrated. The argument is about how much raw tomato goes into a given amount of tomato paste. This doesn't require "research" or a "study" beyond what a fourth-grader could do by having Mommy or Daddy boil chopped tomatoes on the stove and measuring the volume before and after.

The reason for the "hostility" is because it takes so little effort and brainpower to figure this sort of thing out for yourself.

The real research comes in when we determine how many "servings" of vegetables a human "should" consume daily. But that isn't relevant to the determination here of how much tomato paste needs to be on the pizza for it to measure up to standard.

[–]zimm0who0net -2 points-1 points ago

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Where do you get the impression that "scientists" made this decision? According to the Washington Post the change seemed to defy science and it seeks likely that it was made for political reasons and not scientific. Is it not possible that the "lobbyists" actually lobbied to prevent a non-scientific change from being made to the school lunch program?

[–]wetsu 1 point2 points ago

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The scientists made an assessment, not a decision. The political decision was to reject the scientific assessment.

[–]roodninja 0 points1 point ago*

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I really wish people would stop saying that the ruling states that pizza is a vegetable. There's a real need for less sensationalism in politics.

If you took apple slices and put it on a pizza, it could meet the requirements for daily fruit intake. So then it would technically be a fruit.

[–]Jayndoe7 1 point2 points ago

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It IS technically a fruit. Tomatoes aren't vegetables. ;-\

[–]roodninja 1 point2 points ago

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Bahahaha. That's right. It would be more like a fruit cup.

[–]mrpopenfresh 0 points1 point ago

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Of course it is, tomato sauce counting as a vegetable isn't anything new, either. Tomato sauce isn't all that good for you, I don't understand how a processed food can count.

[–]Tarkaan[S] 0 points1 point ago

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Tomato sauce contains antioxidants and lycopene, and ounce-for-ounce more vitamin C than an orange. It is very healthy.

[–]mrpopenfresh 0 points1 point ago

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Salt.

[–]Tarkaan[S] 0 points1 point ago

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I don't understand?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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Then you count in the salt content which is largely there so that the tomato sauce has a shelf life, and then the additives and high fructose / regular fructose corn syrup they put in for flavor.

Eating healthy isn't about getting so many minerals and vitamins and fiber, ect on a daily basis, it's about what comes with it. All the tomato sauce in the world won't change the fact that the pizza comes on a mound of cheese and red meat.

And the tomato sauce you don't make yourself is typically loaded with salt, and sugar. It's almost as bad as flavored yogurt which ends up having as much sugar as a can of soda, and most of it is HFCS so it's almost as bad.

[–]Tarkaan[S] 1 point2 points ago

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ConAgra and Schwan's both put out low-sodium pizzas this past year (pre-emptively lowering the sodium content of their school pizza to federally acceptable levels). Also, I posted the ingredients for both school pizzas elsewhere in the thread and neither contains HFCS.

[–]ex_ample 0 points1 point ago

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Okay this article indicates that that much tomato paste has about the same neutritional value as a regular serving of veggies. Is it wrong?

If we want a scientific debate we should be having that. Maybe you need more to get the right amount of vitamins or something, I don't know.

[–]ColeKeys 0 points1 point ago

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The US government will not only remain broken but will get more broken until complete campaign finance reform is implemented. - CBA

[–]skylaro 0 points1 point ago*

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Plus, I don't know if anyone else has pointed this out yet, but even if tomato paste weren't so artificial, tomatoes are not, in fact, classified as vegetables. They're fruits, so really, if they're gonna try to pull this type of bullshit off, they should really be calling pizza a fruit, not a vegetable.

[–]uhhhclem 0 points1 point ago

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"It's not about politics."

What bizarre definition of "politics" are you working from? What you described not only has everything to do with politics, it is essentially what we talk about in the US today when we talk about politics.

[–]kyky13 0 points1 point ago

I just wanted to say that I'm a high school senior and the lunches at this school DO have pizza and french fries EVERY day! It's disgusting... There's not much more of a choice, and they have a meager little 'salad' bar. It consists of brown shit they consider lettuce and carrot packages. Maybe some olives here or there and old broccoli and cauliflower. Not edible in the least. Plus the fruit situation is either frozen peaches in syrup or two-bite apples that aren't ripe. That doesn't incline our students to get ANYTHING from here anymore... So most of us go off-campus to eat and it's normally something from fast food restaurants. We severely need help with this issue. But nobody will be heard if the government hears even the slightest bit of criticism.

[–]Sabbatai 0 points1 point ago

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Solution: Decide what your own kids eat. Can't afford it? Don't have kids.

[–]kabukistar 1 point2 points ago

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New problem: people who can't afford it have kids anyways and now there are kids suffering for their parents' ass-hattedness.

[–]Sabbatai 0 points1 point ago

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I was being facetious :P

The real solution is to not worry so terribly about the one meal and just make sure they eat right elsewhere. Let school food be a "treat" (some of it is tasty).

Or, violently revolt against a broken government.

One or the other.

[–]paepztr 0 points1 point ago

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IT'S NOT. Come off it, it's just a label, forget about it already. Does. Not. Make. The. Slightest. Of. Difference. To ANYTHING IMPORTANT

[–]thepotatoman23 1 point2 points ago

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Yes it does or else no one would have lobbied for it at all! This is entirely about circumventing health laws so we can spend government money to make kids fat on pizza in american schools. Childhood obesity is already a huge problem in america and this is one of the reasons why. Maybe its not the worst injustice in the world, but its one of the most obvious examples of congress's only goal of satisfying corporations pockets over the well being of the nation.

[–]LibertariansLOL 0 points1 point ago

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nice circlejerk

[–]roodninja 0 points1 point ago*

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It's correct to be outraged that money seems to have such a huge influence on our federal government.

It's just another reason showing why we don't need more regulations and or state influence by the federal government.

Also remember, just because the federal government says 2 tablespoons of tomato paste is a vegetable, doesn't mean my local school system has to. They can still have realistic nutritional values without any help.

[–]joeanon 1 point2 points ago

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The problem is your local schools system wants to give kids shit food and the Feds have no authority to say otherwise.

This bill was an attempt to slightly improve our federal guidelines which are not legally binding.

[–]roodninja 0 points1 point ago*

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Huh? I hate anyone under 18 but most pre-high school districts, seem to care a little and have decent food for their students.

I deal with public school teachers from all over the country, which doesn't make me an expert. But from my experience school lunches don't seem to be as poor as the media or money making TV shows might have you believe. I know for a fact that it isn't a problem in the grade school district in my area.

The bill, passed or not, was a waste of time and resources. Which is my biggest gripe against our overbearing federal government.

[–]mitchwells -1 points0 points ago

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No, Congress did not declare pizza a vegetable

And, from a strictly nutritional standpoint, there’s decent evidence that lawmakers didn’t exactly bungle this decision.

[–]SpicyOctopod 2 points3 points ago

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It is easier to justify serving pizza when a serving of pizza fulfills the vegetable requirement. I think you'll have a hard time arguing that pizza is healthy for you.

[–]Tarkaan[S] 2 points3 points ago

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Yes, and 2+2 = 5, for abnormally large values of 2.

The point is that scientists and nutritionists increased the serving size to a quarter cup. Lawyers and lobbyists reduced it back to two tablespoons. This is the problem.

[–]GRYMandFROSTBITTEN -1 points0 points ago

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Tomatoes are fruit....

[–]joeanon 1 point2 points ago

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Not in American it ain't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomato

' The U.S. Supreme Court settled the controversy on May 10, 1893, by declaring that the tomato is a vegetable, based on the popular definition that classifies vegetables by use'

[–]kabukistar 1 point2 points ago

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Kind of. When you're talking about nutrition (which is really what this whole issue is about), they're a vegetable.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]joeanon 2 points3 points ago

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Our Supreme Court declared tomato a vegetable... bitches !

[–]kabukistar 0 points1 point ago

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Also, it meets the definition of a vegetable.

[–]not_worth_your_time -1 points0 points ago

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OP needs to calm down a little bit. Reclassifying pizza as a vegetable will not kill any school kids.

[–]sge_fan -2 points-1 points ago

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When corporations are people it does not surprise me the least bit that pizzas are vegetables.

[–]tanstaafl90 -2 points-1 points ago

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You do not need to the congress to tell you how to eat, nor how to feed your children. If the one lunch a day that school provides is that bad, then send your child with a bag lunch. American obesity is a result of poor choices people make, not whatever hot air congress declares this week.

Does no one stop to consider why this program exists in such a way as it does? How do congressmen, beyond their election, become qualified to make budgetary decisions about how a local school board feeds it's students?

OWS? I thought that was financial sector reform. How is it every subject gets them added as if they are a beacon of hope and change. They are irrelevant to the question at hand.

[–]zarrin 1 point2 points ago

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The issue of how much tomato sauce constitutes a serving of vegetables is very secondary (and you're right that parents are in a much better position to monitor their child's health and diet). However, the OP is demonstrating yet another blatant example of how our government has been bought out by corporate interests.

[–]tanstaafl90 0 points1 point ago

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The movement would do better long run to usurp the Democratic party back from those currently running it. They certainly are doing their best to marginalize themselves and ruin any chances of widespread support by picking many small issues instead of one or two big ones.

[–]zarrin 0 points1 point ago

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There are a lot of people still suspicious or just plain opposed to the movement because they are either willfully or unwillfully ignorant of what's taking place on Wall Street and Washington. Providing example after example of the message via current events will, at the very least, make those outsiders more sympathetic to the movement.

[–]tanstaafl90 0 points1 point ago

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OWS has, from the outset, had a marketing and ideology problem. The reason more sustainable support has not arisen is because the message is muddled, there seems to be no clear agenda on how to achieve the ill defined aims, and no clear leader or leadership group.

The 'Occupy' part has done more to alienate people than anything else. They are dismissive because the movement allowed the message to be sidetracked by non-essential debates about the constitutionality of how the protest took place. While many in the movement think this will demonstrate the hypocrisy inherent to the system, what they fail to understand is the people they want support from are not interested. They want concrete definitions of the problem, and concrete solutions to them, along with someone to tell them life will be better for them. What the movement finds as a life affirming moment, the rest of the country finds as political naivete.

[–]joeanon 0 points1 point ago

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I would suggest you petition your school directly. Feds have no legal ability to change school lunch. This was a tiny piece of the agriculture appropriation bill and this part about getting pizza off the veggy list was blocked by politics from a state that I believe makes a lot of the schools pizzas.

However.. if it makes you feel any better only 20% of schools even bother to follow these guidelines.

[–]tanstaafl90 0 points1 point ago

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The Feds provide money and other assistance. My understanding is they use this as a means to do what they really have no mandate for. My real point, I guess, was that there is no reason to cherry pick little issues to be examples of what OWS is about when there are so many big ones that make the case so much easier.

[–]Tarkaan[S] -1 points0 points ago

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They are irrelevant to the question at hand.

If that's how you feel about Occupy vis a vis corporate government, then you don't understand either issue very well.

[–]joeanon -2 points-1 points ago*

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States control school lunches.. not feds. You're outrage, as usual, is misplaced.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/did-congress-declare-pizza-as-a-vegetable-not-exactly/2011/11/20/gIQABXgmhN_blog.html

Federal guidelines on lunches are just guidelines not laws. I imagine if your school meets them you qualify for more funding. Only 20% of schools meet these guidelines. The states can basically serve your kids anything they want and they are the ones feeding them pizza and shit. I don't believe the Feds currently have authority to regulated school lunches and they probably shouldn't they can just bribe schools with funding options.

[–]Tarkaan[S] 2 points3 points ago

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[–]Skillet_Lasagna -1 points0 points ago

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If we are looking to whether or not the difference in a couple tablespoons of tomato paste is making our kids fat, we are in trouble. Childhood obesity is a problem because parents don't regulate their kid's nutrition. Honestly this should be a non-issue.

[–]makemejelly49 -1 points0 points ago

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This is why DC should be occupied along with Wall Street. Someone has to put pressure on the politicians, while rattling the cages our corporate masters have locked us in. If you put pressure on the politicians, they will listen, because all the campaign money in the world can't keep them in office if no one votes for them.

[–]Tarkaan[S] 2 points3 points ago

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DC is being occupied.

[–]teefs -1 points0 points ago

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implying corporatism is somehow separate from politics

capitalism enables corporations to shape & buy out politics. stop trying to separate them.

[–]kabukistar -1 points0 points ago

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Seriously, though. Tomatoes are a vegetable.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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Inclined to agree with this guy, and disagree with Tarkaan. We're talking about pizza, not organized crime that has it's roots in Italian history going back centuries, and if you look at it the right way, it goes back before the Roman Empire. Try to keep things on topic.

On paper there's no reason for pizza to be unhealthy; it's crust and tomato sauce and whatever veggies you throw on it. It's when it comes slathered in cheese that's at best some petroleum by-product and two tiers of red meat to the point that it may as well come with a pool so that it can literally swim in it's own grease that you've made a heart attack on bread.

[–]cowstalker -1 points0 points ago

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Sugar. It's a big business.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points ago

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No who gives a shit. Look if the kids want to pizza they can but they will get fat, so tell them to eat in moderation but its there decision. Thats how libertarians roll.

[–]ImproperJon -1 points0 points ago

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How could I have been so blind! The GOP wants to create anti-science in the hopes that it will mutually destruct with science when they come into contact.

[–]nonvivant -1 points0 points ago

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Some day people are gonna learn what the word "Corporatism" actually means and I can stop groaning about it. Today is not that day.

[–]tossertom -1 points0 points ago

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And federalism...

[–]littleimp -1 points0 points ago

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No it is obviously the ultimate fight of good vs evil, and if don't do something it will plunge the world into eternal darkness.

[–]tilleyrw -1 points0 points ago

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Our Owners like fat people. Fat people can become police officers who learn brutality. They already hate themselves for what they've become then they express this hatred on others.

Fat people need more medical care and feed the corporate medical industry, buy the Big Pharmaceutical products as they seek a "cure" for obesity.

Therefore, fat people are responsible for the breakdown of society and the growth of our Corporate Banking Overlords.

TLDR; the first two sentences are true and the last is pure biased fiction. Humour relaxes the brain and allows the meaning of the first two to enter the consciousness.

P.S. A tomato is a fruit since it grows from a flower!!!