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Anyone know why /var and /etc weren't named something like /etc and /cfg? (self.linux)
submitted 1 year ago* by lilfuckshit
Does anyone know of some sort of reason for having two directories with near synonymous names?
I wonder because while /var seems to hold various things, /etc seems to be configuration-file oriented.
[–]odokemono 405 points406 points407 points 1 year ago*
A long long time ago, in the System 7 days when Unix was shiny and new it was decided that in /bin would go the binaries, /lib the libraries, in /usr would go the users' homes and everything else would go in... /etc. That's what it meant back then, "et cetera". When applications needed configuration files they often put them in their own additional hierarchies but the users complained that trying to find those files was annoying; they wanted all those files in one directory and /etc was the only place that fit the bill.
After a while the users started compiling their own binaries and they needed to put them someplace other than /bin, so as not to confuse them with the system ones, so that's where /usr/bin came from. /usr/lib, /usr/local followed suit.
Because /usr became a standardish place which could be used for user-installed stuff, it was more and more populated with things started by users but a lot of those were so useful that they soon became ubiquitous and adopted by systems, so after a while users' homes were moved into /home to segregate the humans from another directory known for system stuff. /usr lost its "users" meaning.
/var was born out of the needs of diskless workstations. In those days, you could boot a machine without a disk; they would load their kernel over network and then mount the / and /usr filesystems read-only from a central remote server with NFS. It made sense since all the operating-system files were identical on all workstations, so they all mounted the same shared filesystems, saving on hardware costs. But you still needed at least one filesystem where the workstations could read & write their own files separately since this stuff was "variable" between workstations, /var was born.
Boy I'm old.
EDIT: Thanks for the nice comments. Some corrections.
[–]arrogantworm 41 points42 points43 points 1 year ago
This, sir, is the most beautifully simple explanation to a confusing and brain-wracking period in the Unix timeline. I applaud your eloquence (and upvote it to!)
[–]AnythingApplied 13 points14 points15 points 1 year ago
You answered a question I have never thought to ask, but am completely thrilled by your answer. Thank you.
[–]neoice 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago
relevant.
[–]identifytarget 7 points8 points9 points 1 year ago
With age comes wisdom. :D I loved the description. It seems like you've been a systems engineer for a long time and worked heavily with early unix. Care to share any amazing or interesting stories?
[–]odokemono 91 points92 points93 points 1 year ago*
I don't know about wisdom, I'd rather call it experience, I'm also not an engineer, I never had any formal training. I'm a veteran System Admin, I've written some articles and taught to other SysAdmins. I've been working with Unix almost exclusively since the early 80's.
What's amazing about Unix is that code I wrote more than 25 years ago still compiles and works unchanged today.
"Amazing stories": Here's a couple.
I once went to a customer's (big lawyer firm) during a week-end to do a big upgrade on a server. It had one big disk (60 MB I think it was) that I had to remove from the old server and install in the new one and copy the data to the new disk, which was a bit bigger. These were large 5.25 inch MFM disks. New server is installed and up, I connect the old disk and start copying: It's slow as mollasses, one 10KB file could take 4-5 minutes. So I quickly wrote a script which used dd to read and write one sector at a time and show me progress. Reads would hang for minutes at a time every 27 sectors.
So I called the firm's SysAdmin at his house and ask him about backups (he'd never done any) and if he'd noticed anything strange about the server. He says "Yeah, it's been horrendously slow for a week, so we're happy about the upgrade". I hang up.
On a napkin I figure that the copy will take upwards of ten days at this rate, and the client expects the server up Monday morning. This is bad.
I clearly recall seeing the heads' stepper motor shaft on the side of the disk, so I gently put the tip of my finger on it to see if I can sense it trying to seek repeatedly while reading. It does, but I notice that when I apply a little bit of pressure it stops, and on the console I see my program outputting successful sector numbers non-stop.
I spent the next 20 hours with my fingertips on a shaft. Data transferred successfully, customer happy, and I couldn't type for the next 2 days.
As part of a new systems installation at the northern tip of Canada, the only problem reported was that some terminals were showing the wrong time. Some were local, some connected through DATAPAC, some through satellite links. After 30 minutes of head scratching I realized: This server has terminals in three time-zones. Easy TZ fix.
At a software development company, we made a full Library management system which used at its core a home-made database manager. Records in this database were tunable so that they fit in sector lengths exactly, which is fine. A lot of our customers were on MIPS systems which used 8K sectors, and a few of our very large customers had terrible performance problems. We were close to being sued for unfulfilled marketing promises. The whole development team were having their butts kicked non-stop and ordered to "fix it."
After 3 weeks of headless chickens running around I overstepped the bounds of my responsibilities and take a look at the problem. In 20 minutes I discover that yes, records are 8K, sectors are 8K but at the very beginning of every DB files is a 1K DB description record. I demonstrate to the Senior programmer that ever DB read incurs a 2-sector physical read and any write incurs 2 reads and two writes because every record is overlapping two sectors. I ask him to grow the DB descriptor by 7 kilo-bytes of filler. We install a small update at the customers, re-structure the DB files and hey presto: system load goes from awful to very responsive. Everyone happy all around and I saved the company millions from a sloppy software design.
At an aeronautics company the development team are writing their own code to simulate heat-exchange in jet engines. The data sets are massive, the number cruncher servers are overloaded and are swapping non-stop for days at a time. I look at the situation with a senior dev.; they open a humongous file, read it in memory, crunch the data, then write it back to disk. I show him how mmap() works: Hey presto, 400% performance increase and the code is simpler. Millions saved. (mmap extends the system's virtual memory with a file's contents, an amazing concept.)
I went to a customer to do a server upgrade and replacement. These machines were NCR Towers made by the famous cash register company. They were about 4 feet high, 6 feet long, 8 inch thick and weighed about 300 pounds. Upgrade went swimmingly and as I get ready to depart the nice customer says to me: "Hey what do I do with the old machine?" I says "I dunno." He says "You want it?"
For years afterward I ended up using an NCR Tower 450 with 4 megabytes of ram, a 120 MB disk, 16 serial ports and two serial terminals at my house. I could compile a "Hello World!" program in about 1.5 minutes, I didn't need to heat two rooms during winter time. The system was valued at about $22,000 back then. Before PCs were popular, I had a Unix server at home and I was happy as can be. :) It was a bitch to move around though.
I've got plenty more but this is TL. :)
[–]Indos 10 points11 points12 points 1 year ago
Those stories were strangely fascinating, thanks for the read :)
[–]drfugly 7 points8 points9 points 1 year ago
Wow, that has to be one of the best reads on reddit. I wish that I was that close to the hardware to see things like that.
[–]hashmalum 7 points8 points9 points 1 year ago
You're the type of sysadmin I always hoped I would be.
EDIT: MOAR!
[–]seydar 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
LIAR YOU NEVER EDITED YOUR POST!
[–]eridius 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
He must have edited it within 2 minutes of the original posting. Those edits don't cause the asterisk to appear.
[–]hashmalum 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I didn't realize that. And I do 80% of my edits right after posting
[–]newsedition 11 points12 points13 points 1 year ago
I spent the next 20 hours with my fingertips on a shaft
...
[–]OriginalStomper 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
That's what she said?
[–]odokemono 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
That's what she said.
[–]seydar 11 points12 points13 points 1 year ago
This is the type of sysadmin you are
[–]odokemono 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
I wouldn't last a day in the outback.
[–]seydar 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/inside_jokes/rage%20wolf/locked_in.jpg
[–]arcsine 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
Oh fuck Datapac terminals... Damn, you are oldschool. I raise my drink to you, oh datacenter sage!
[–]odokemono 7 points8 points9 points 1 year ago
Datapac, Tymnet, Telenet and other switched-packet networks were very reliable and pre-dated the internet. Expensive as all hell too. For a time, they transported ATM transactions in Canada. I still remember logging-in:
ooo[ENTER] 92100086,f
Would send you to their information page.
The fun part about them was that they were like phone switch systems and you could hack them in the same manners. I remember logging in to a University server, connecting to an out-pool modem, dialing in to Datapac, then connect to a U.S. facility which had outgoing tunnels, then to Tymnet and finally end the connection to Compuserve, using un-billed accounts. All these jumps through hoops were to make sure I wouldn't get caught as I wasn't sure about the legality of the whole process. :)
Compuserve was a lot of fun, before the internet and, urghl AOL.
[–]arcsine 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Wow, it's the same story for me. I used to dial in to a VAX that was in the basement of the local public library which piped it's COM port to telnet, so I got a host: prompt. From there I entered the hostname of some box that was on the old university networks at U of M. From there, I got to a Lynx session that took me to the Grand Rapids Freenet, and somehow managed to get to IRC from there. I had no idea what immense amounts of technology I was using to do it, but I knew I was chatting with people in Grand Rapids, and that was a lot farther than BBSes would take me without long distance charges.
[–]roxxe 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
we need to see your unixbeard
[–]odokemono 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
It's buzz-trimmed with a #2 guide (quarter inch long), mostly gray. Not much to see.
[–]masklinn 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
Do an AMA, or some shit like that, your battle stories are pretty damn nice.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
As part of a new systems installation at the northern tip of Canada...
Alert? What year?
[–]odokemono 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
No no no, not that far up. Somewhere near Yellowknife, can't remember the name. My geography sense has always been poor and now that I look at a map, it wasn't the "tip". What I remember: it was cold. Damn cold. For a southerner like me (Montreal) it seemed like the end of the world.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
My dad was stationed in Alert for a period before I was born (so late 1970s). Your piss freezes before it hits the ground. But at least the station was under constant use; in more recent years he did checkups of unmanned North Warning System sites, and he'd encounter entranceways blocked by half a foot or so of ice buildup. I think those were cases where the generator failed, so there was no heat in the building.
It was also fun flying in when a caribou or polar bear had taken up residence on the landing strip. You'd have to buzz the critter a couple times (unless it was dead, in which case I'm not sure what protocol was).
I flew back towards Montreal via Rankin Inlet stop-over and got out of the plane for a quick smoke. -50 degrees C and 50kph winds. The most shocking thing was that I instantly felt my nose hairs freeze solid, and I could feel my eyes starting to seize up. Quickest smoke I ever had.
Alert must have been scary cold.
[–]Ferwerda 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Try as I might, I don't really get what is going on here. Could you elaborate?
[–]odokemono 8 points9 points10 points 1 year ago
It's the three timezones on one computer which was the shocker.
Back in those days, we didn't have pretty graphics on business computers, just text. "Terminals" were basically a keyboard and a screen on which only characters were displayed. You may have seen them, depending on your age, as airport registration computers; old technology.
Back then, you connected a bunch of terminals on one computer, so you had multiple users all using one server (cheaper that way, and there were no personal computers.
The terminals were connected with serial ports and lines, like the ones you find on PCs today, you know, that thing you connect a modem to. Search wikipedia for RS232 (we used 422 often too.)
On this one computer which was way up north where the timezones get smaller and smaller (that's how longitudinal lines are, they meet at the poles) some terminals were in Central, some Mountain, others in Eastern Standard time. When we developed our library management system, we never expect such a setup.
Luckily, Unix counts time as the number of seconds elapsed since Jan. 1, 1970, and provides simple functions to get the local time. All you have to do was give it your timezone as the value of an environment variable called "TZ" and it does the conversion automagically. That fix at the customer was to change a login script which consulted a list of terminal names and set TZ accordingly.
They surely have experienced the same problem in parts of Russia. :)
[–]sidneyc 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
The problem is that the physical server has three terminals connected to it; and the terminals are in different time zones.
Having a system-wide time-zone designation fails in such a scenario; time-zones need to be settable per login session. As you may or may not know, Unix system time is always UTC and date/time to string conversion depends on an environment variable (which may have a system-wide default, but can be overridden by the user).
It's not UTC, it's the epoch: 0= Jan 1, 1970 00:00:00 UTC. Funny thing is that predates UTC by something like 2 years and it's a hairy situation considering the leap-seconds. Doesn't matter really because all unix systems agree when that zero happened. The rest is conversion that's done in software.
The current trend about setting your computer's real-time clock to UTC time is linux-centric because it has to deal with a PC clock which has a poor representation of time; year/month/date hour:minute:seconds.
All in all using UTC doesn't fix any problems, it just changes /sbin/hwclock's behaviour at boot-up and shutdown. It's capable to deal with your local timezone fine.
[–]seydar 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Moral of the story: always use UTC
[–]Ralith 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Why not just go out and buy a clamp?
[–]frumious -5 points-4 points-3 points 1 year ago
I smell BS whenever I hear the words "number cruncher".
32 CPU SGI Origin series with an impressive JBOD (can't remember how much total) and 6 GB of RAM, which was unheard of at the time. The thing used interconnect technology which SGI had bought from Cray. The whole setup cost a couple of millions. In the aeronautics industry, you need oodles of computing power. Calling it BS is just ignorance.
[–]CannedCorn 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago
Wow, that was awesome, thanks dude.
[–]aestheticreddit 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
You sure remember things well, though.
[–]markys 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago*
Wonderful. Do you have other stories like that you could tell us ?
Edit: ohhh, here they are: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/cpisy/anyone_know_why_var_and_etc_werent_named/c0ubl1r
[–]abudabu 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Thank you so much for that. I have saved this post because of your explanation.
[–]Tillotson 123 points124 points125 points 1 year ago
man hier
If you ever need a quick description of the filesystem hierarchy
[–]ironiridis 19 points20 points21 points 1 year ago
Whoa. I wish I'd known about that manpage about 9 years ago. That is incredibly useful.
[–]ropers 7 points8 points9 points 1 year ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard
[–]ironiridis 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago
Well, it's not like that article existed way back when. :)
[–]Porges 7 points8 points9 points 1 year ago
7 years, close :)
[–]wally_fish 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
In the olden days (i.e., when you would buy your Unix from AT&T), they had binaries (as well as configuration files) under /etc, and home directories under /usr.
Now it looks that even commercial unices like AIX and HPUX, which normally jump at any "differentiating" feature, have a somewhat sane filesystem layout.
Oh, wait, according to that file, they use /usr/etc for system administration commands, and /usr/adm and /usr/spool for stuff a linuxer would suspect to be in /var. (And none of them has /usr/share! What a loss!)
Honestly, they tried to change it to a saner scheme in MacOSX (and the most useful MacOSX features are copied over by Mac fanboys with a leaning towards system programming that they can only live out under Linux), but after long years of using Linux, I think that /Configuration and /LocalSystemData wouldn't make me happier anyways.
[–]mattalexx -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
Thinking the same thing.
[–]simulacra10 21 points22 points23 points 1 year ago
woman frau
sorry just got a kick out of your post :) and I suppose the man page creator of heir had a great sense of german geek humor too.
[–]Clorow 13 points14 points15 points 1 year ago
woman da
FTFY
[–]penguinv 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
frau da
fixed that for me!
vrouw hier man daar
[–]Selenolycus 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
was?
[–]paulemaule1 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago
'hier' in german means 'here', just so you know.
[–]Edman274 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago
Whereas in french it means "yesterday". Am I the only one that took french?
[–]Tiomaidh 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago
Whereas in Spanish it looks like someone was trying to say "iron" but got stabbed before they could finish.
[–]chaos386 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
I don't get it. Why would someone be speaking Spanish in England?
[–]PopeTackler 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
Plenty of French people know it.
[–]lengau 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Am I the only one that took french?
Apparently so.
[–]penguinv -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
no
[–]m-p-3 -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago
Nope :)
[–]sumerit -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago
non
[–]freehunter 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
But it's somewhat similar to herr, the german word for mister. I think simulacra was riffing on that.
[–]takatori -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
This, mein Herr.
[–]simulacra10 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
thanks for the correction.
I should have checked the spelling of heir (man) first.. duh.
[–]BaronVonMannsechs 9 points10 points11 points 1 year ago
Mann is man. Herr is Mister/sir.
[–]Clorow -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
...and "man" is a nebulous, hypothetical person.
[–]Hebejebelus 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago
Hier auch!
</germansenseofhumour>
[–]jaggederest 26 points27 points28 points 1 year ago
That's the real joke in your post. Everyone knows germans don't have a sense of humor.
[–]Hebejebelus 7 points8 points9 points 1 year ago
The problem is, I’m German, and I managed to crack that joke. So I think either your hypothesis is wrong, or the universe is about to explode again.
[–]penguinv 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
I've met Germans with a sense of humor. Usually droll.
[–]jaggederest 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
There is a third way: Your 'joke' was not funny. ;)
…
Shit.
[–]yxing 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Didn't you just prove his point?
[–]freehunter 8 points9 points10 points 1 year ago
Ve haff dis huemor! Who zays vee don't? I kil teir lives!
[–]geep 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
That's why there was no open tag.
[–]deadphilosopher 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
That's a joke, right?
[–]stopthinking80 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
They do. It's just not funny for the rest of the world.
How did I not know this? That's probably the most useful thing I learned all week.
[–]Schrockwell 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
Holy FUCK I wish I had known about this. You don't know how many times I've searched Google for this exact thing.
[–]jeremyridesbikes 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Here is something that helps me. I usually type it in as my google search. ie " man mdadm" comes back with the top link of: http://linux.die.net/man/8/mdadm
I like to have it in a browser.
Note to Google: I don't want to search for "man hair"
[–]JAPH 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/8709/
you may get complaints about version compatibility, but it still works for me (as of 3.6.7).
[–]jackolas 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
BCAT!
[–]Choralone 24 points25 points26 points 1 year ago
Becaues /var doesn't mean "various" - it means "variable" - other parts of the system could generally be mounted read-only, but /var needs to be writeable.
[–]bushel 30 points31 points32 points 1 year ago
I checked the Wikipedia to confirm my memory of this
/etc is for configuration files, coming from the term: "et. cetera" Yes, I guess /config might have made more sense, but the contents of /etc sometimes are slightly more that just a simple configuration file, so, anyway. The contents of /etc tend not to change very often.
/var is for variable files - dynamic, change often.
[–]freak132 14 points15 points16 points 1 year ago
A few examples of non-configuration files that are stored in /etc would be x.509 (SSL, etc) certificiates and daemon initialization scripts (init scripts)
[–]inataysia 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
I was about to rage that certs should go in /usr/share, but then checked on a debian host and /etc/ssl/certs/ is full of symlinks to files in /usr/share/ca-certificates/
this was probably (?) preferred as the pragmatic alternative to an /etc/ssl.conf file that would need to be parsed to find out where the certs are stored. This latter approach is probably more flexible though.
Most everything in /etc/init.d (scripts that control starting/stopping of services, not that likely to change, hence not configuration) doesn't seem like it really belongs there (rc*.d, sure, they're full of actual configuration information about runlevels). Again, this could have been a more pragmatic choice than keeping all the init scripts in /usr/bin/* alongside the corresponding binaries, if only because it's clear that (nearly?) everything in /etc/init.d follows the same calling convention.
[–]sheenobu 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago*
Again, this could have been a more pragmatic choice than keeping all the init scripts in /usr/bin/* alongside the corresponding binaries, if only because it's clear that (nearly?) everything in /etc/init.d follows the same calling convention.
Also, remember that /usr/ is supposed to be mountable on multiple different unix systems. So two separate unix systems may need to start up application X in the init.d folders using two different methods, so placing that startup script in /usr/ could cause trouble for other systems which used /usr/
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
I thought /etc stood for 'editable text(file) configuration'...I remember reading this a while back and thinking "Oh, I thought it stood for 'etcetera'..."
Something tells me it's shenanigans from those BSD folks...
[–]psilokan 7 points8 points9 points 1 year ago*
I can't say I've heard that before, but it makes sense. That being said, it could be one of those acronym that were made up after the fact.
Edit: I wrote anagram when I meant acronym
[–]quitecontent 15 points16 points17 points 1 year ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backronym
[–]japroach 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
*binitialism
[–]minozake 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Example of dynamic file in /etc: mtab, kept for historical reasons.
[–][deleted] 23 points24 points25 points 1 year ago
I've had the misfortune of being in charge of a SCO Unixware box for a couple of years. What a mess. Binaries in /etc? Yeesh.
[–]shieldforyoureyes 36 points37 points38 points 1 year ago
Worst. Unix. Ever.
[–][deleted] 36 points37 points38 points 1 year ago
Wait, it gets better. One day I get around to disabling useless junk on that SCO box. I have to constantly call up man pages to find out what's the differences in switches for ls and other common tools on SCO. I finally find out how to disable a service. I go ahead and stop the httpd daemon that was serving up the default "it works!" page. Guess what? Can't get man pages anymore. Start the httpd again, man pages work.
AWESOME.
[–]shieldforyoureyes 10 points11 points12 points 1 year ago
The thing I really hated was that parellel filesystem tree with everything arranged by... product codes or something? With another traditional unix-layout tree composed of symbolic links into the first. UGH.
[–][deleted] 13 points14 points15 points 1 year ago
I recall different vendors putting shit under /opt/vendorname, and I definitely recall a folder named 'skunk' under /opt.
skunk.
[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 1 year ago
That's what I'm referring to;
SCO Skunkware
[–]mrfunfun801 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
upvoted for great emphasis of skunk
[–]rainman_104 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
Considering that SCO Unixware found its roots with Xenix by Microsoft:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenix
What the hell does one expect? :-)
[–]wildeye 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Very true, but surprisingly enough, it got even worse after Microsoft set it loose.
[–]shieldforyoureyes 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
True, true.
I actually found SCO Unix to be more annoying than Xenix. (That might just be my history though - I was a more demanding Unix person by the time I encountered SCO.)
[–]Choralone 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
That was SCO OpenServer
SCO UnixWare was originally Novell UnixWare - totally differenet product line.
[–]rainman_104 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Doh my bad... Still shit products though :)
You got that right. Bad, bad memories.....
[–]keeegan 14 points15 points16 points 1 year ago
This is exactly why it was called /etc. It used to hold binaries that weren't in /bin in the early unix days.
[–]Darkmere 10 points11 points12 points 1 year ago
Indeed. /etc held enough binaries to restore /bin. including rtar. Weird place.
[–]BraveSirRobin 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Was /etc a separate partition? Might be useful if you hose /
[–]kaens 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
My /etc is a separate partition.
[–]Justinsaccount 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
It is? Generally that is not possible, since files like /etc/inittab, /etc/init.d, /etc/fstab being missing makes it hard to actually mount /etc.
initramfs and a custom init script. To be fair though, I only did it to show someone it could be done. I don't think there's really much of a point.
[–]riddley 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Solaris has binaries in /etc. :(
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Yes I know :/
[–]crashorbit 41 points42 points43 points 1 year ago
First lay out an arbitrary division of responsibility. Spice the divisions with technology related performance goals. Then add 30 years of accumulated cruft.
Pass through at least two standardization bodies and mix in some proprietary "added value".
Pour through a strainer and serve with an olive.
[–]scruzia 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago
/etc predated the existence of /var by decades. In the early (like, mid-1970's) "informal" distributions of the Unix kernel sources, the device drivers were in a directory called "dmr", and the rest of the kernel were in one called "ken".
[–]akallio9000 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
So Dennis was the hardware guy and Ken was the softy?
[–]MindlessAutomata 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
What sort of glass should I poor it in? The olive makes me think a cocktail, but the standards body makes me think that I just want to get this thing down as fast as possible == shotglass
[–]illuminatedwax 25 points26 points27 points 1 year ago
Legacy usage dictates that you should drink it out of a shoe.
[–]axord 8 points9 points10 points 1 year ago
And then you've got the classic religious war: loafers or boots.
(boots are obviously superior btw)
[–]MrWoohoo 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Drink it out of /var/boot
[–]aywwts4 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago
You pour the bastardized mess into a Compiz(TM) Brand cube shaped martini glass and light it on fire.
[–]crashorbit 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago
survivors will envy the dead.
[–]project2501a 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
while evangelizing that you are trying to make a glass to be used by the average joe
[–]brennen -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
Where the fuck is my olive?
[–]DaGoodBoy 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
Your question is probably best answered here:
http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#THEROOTFILESYSTEM
In the history of Unix, certain file system mount points would have mounts that were split between different physical disks or even shared between systems over a network.
/etc is used to contain the boot time information for the system which is rather unchanging except when software or configuration changes are needed. The /var directory is generally for spools, logs and other items that change more often. In the old days, you would isolate the file systems with more frequent file I/O to separate physical disks to help with performance.
Just a side note, I remember working on SunOS systems with the root, /var and /tmp as separate mounts on the internal physical disk and the /usr partition on an external 80MB 5.25" drive. The system had to be able to boot into single user mode without the /usr partition for recovery or repair. This was to facilitate large (at the time) AutoCAD 2.13 installations that wouldn't fit on a single disk with the operating system... those were fun days haha
[–]shieldforyoureyes 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago
I believe /var came about in the diskless workstation era so that most of the rest of the system could be mounted read-only.
[–]Darkmere 7 points8 points9 points 1 year ago
The fun part is that we head back there now. Cellphones and netbooks most are on the "diskless" r/o place where user data is the only writable content.
And life is good there.
[–]AzMoo 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
We're about to see a major resurgence in the enterprise-space as well, through desktop virtualization. With the new PCoIP protocol and transparent network compression we're at a point where it's become viable, and desirable, again.
[–]kcbanner 14 points15 points16 points 1 year ago
/var is named that because the files it contains could potential be variable in size. You will often put it on a seperate partition to avoid having a log file explode and take the whole system with it.
[–]plbogen 19 points20 points21 points 1 year ago
I can't tell you the number of times I have had exploding log files bring servers to their knees.
[–]FatStig 16 points17 points18 points 1 year ago
I do not wish to see this porn.
[–]mntgoat 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
Wait until you have an unlinked file growing but you can't find it anywhere!
[–]ericje 8 points9 points10 points 1 year ago
for i in `find /proc/*/fd -lname '* (deleted)'`; do d=${i%/*}; echo `readlink $i;grep '^pos:.*[1-9]' ${d}info/${i##*/}`;done|grep pos
[–]danglingpointer 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
bravo.
[–]Justinsaccount -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago
the variableness has nothing to do with the size of the files.
[–]Rhomboid 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago
Wait, are you saying that /var is an abbreviation of 'various'? No. It's short for variable, i.e. things that are dynamic and constantly being written to, like log files, databases, mail spools, and other writable data files.
[–]Gro-Tsen 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
FWIW, the tar of a Unix v7 system install that I have at hand has the following directories in it:
bin/ boot bs bs.c dev/ etc/ hphtunix hptmunix lib/ rphtunix rptmunix unix usr/dict/ usr/dict/papers/ usr/doc/ usr/doc/adb/ usr/doc/adv.ed/ usr/doc/beginners/ usr/doc/cacm/ usr/doc/ctour/ usr/doc/edtut/ usr/doc/eqn/ usr/doc/learn/ usr/doc/msmacros/ usr/doc/porttour/ usr/doc/ratfor/ usr/doc/refer/ usr/doc/shell/ usr/doc/summary/ usr/doc/troff/ usr/doc/trofftut/ usr/doc/uprog/ usr/doc/uucp/ usr/doc/yacc/ usr/games/ usr/games/ching.d/ usr/games/lib/ usr/games/quiz.k/ usr/include/ usr/include/sys/ usr/lib/ usr/lib/font/ usr/lib/learn/ usr/lib/lex/ usr/lib/refer/ usr/lib/struct/ usr/lib/term/ usr/lib/tmac/ usr/lib/uucp/ usr/man/man0/ usr/man/man1/ usr/man/man2/ usr/man/man3/ usr/man/man4/ usr/man/man5/ usr/man/man6/ usr/man/man7/ usr/man/man8/ usr/mdec/ usr/pub/ usr/spool/at/ usr/spool/dpd/ usr/spool/mail/ usr/spool/secretmail/ usr/src/cmd/ usr/src/cmd/adb/ usr/src/cmd/as/ usr/src/cmd/awk/ usr/src/cmd/bas/ usr/src/cmd/c/ usr/src/cmd/cpp/ usr/src/cmd/dc/ usr/src/cmd/eqn/ usr/src/cmd/f77/ usr/src/cmd/learn/ usr/src/cmd/lex/ usr/src/cmd/lex/lib/ usr/src/cmd/lint/ usr/src/cmd/m4/ usr/src/cmd/make/ usr/src/cmd/mip/ usr/src/cmd/neqn/ usr/src/cmd/pcc/ usr/src/cmd/plot/ usr/src/cmd/prep/ usr/src/cmd/ratfor/ usr/src/cmd/refer/ usr/src/cmd/roff/ usr/src/cmd/sed/ usr/src/cmd/sh/ usr/src/cmd/spell/ usr/src/cmd/standalone/ usr/src/cmd/struct/ usr/src/cmd/tar/ usr/src/cmd/tbl/ usr/src/cmd/tp/ usr/src/cmd/troff/ usr/src/cmd/troff/font/ usr/src/cmd/troff/term/ usr/src/cmd/uucp/ usr/src/cmd/xsend/ usr/src/cmd/yacc/ usr/src/games/ usr/src/games/chess/ usr/src/libF77/ usr/src/libI77/ usr/src/libc/ usr/src/libc/crt/ usr/src/libc/csu/ usr/src/libc/gen/ usr/src/libc/stdio/ usr/src/libc/sys/ usr/src/libc/v6/ usr/src/libdbm/ usr/src/libfpsim/ usr/src/libm/ usr/src/libmp/ usr/src/libplot/ usr/sys/40/ usr/sys/conf/ usr/sys/dev/ usr/sys/h/ usr/sys/sys/
So, no /var. The contents of /etc is also worth noting, because it's not just config files:
etc/mount etc/mknod etc/mkfs etc/init etc/getty etc/dmesg etc/update etc/umount etc/wall etc/accton etc/ttys etc/passwd etc/group etc/cron etc/rc etc/utmp etc/mtab etc/ddate
I think it's a mixture of what you'd find in /etc and /sbin nowadays.
[–]wally_fish 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Exactly. At some point I got really angry at the world because they took away the games from /usr/games and put them into /usr/bin. What sacrilege! robots and boggle and tt (or tetris) all belong into /usr/games and nowhere else.
I disagree, but my distro seems to install games into their own directories and use wrapper scripts on them. It's very weird.
I'd rather the user grep ls -l output for "games".
ls -l
My first exposure to *nix was BSD 4.3 in.... 1986.
That also had /usr/spool, not /var.
[–]int0x13 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
if you really like those names you can always create symlinks for them =]
[–]Edman274 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
Or you could just use GoboLinux?
[–]Fraxtil 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
The real reason /etc is named that way.
[–]HyperSpaz 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
I once read in an old Debian tutorial that "etc" stands for "editable text configuration".
[–]mgedmin 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
Sounds like a backronym. Originally /etc had random stuff like binaries (/etc/init) and so on. I've always seen it explained as standing for "et cetera".
[–]fadec 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
And why isn't /home called /hom ?
[–]calrogman 14 points15 points16 points 1 year ago*
See also: /sbin, /boot, /media, /proc, /selinux, /root
The / directory has no limitations on the contents other than those dictated by the filesystem. The short, descriptive names make it easy to learn how the root filesystem is laid out and means one can take greater advantage of tab completion. Nice try though.
Edit: Also worth noting, /usr used to hold user directories. It now holds binaries, libraries and shared resources that are not system critical. Unix System Resources is a convenient backronym.
[–]jdpage 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
usr = useful - sometimes (even) required
[–]calrogman -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago
A thousand upvotes to you, good sir.
[–]redRumSirIsMurder 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Unix System Resources Do you find that in common usage? It seems unclear as a description of the /usr tree which is (broadly) for multi-user system files, as opposed to the single-user, system critical files found in /sbin.
/usr
/sbin
[–]calrogman 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
It is fairly common, yes. That doesn't mean it's accurate though.
[–]redRumSirIsMurder 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
At least I'm prepared now.
[–]Philluminati 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
Come on guys, -5 isn't fair. It isn't that stupid a question
[–]notatoad 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
why would it be called /hom? it doesn't contain homs.
/hom
[–]chozar 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
My user accounts are hom1 and hom2, though.
[–]qnaal 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
hom0 ruined the American Family.
[–]kukulkan 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
It's my understanding /etc is supposed to stand for extended tool chest. I'm not sure how accurate that is, but damn it sounds good.
[–]gnit 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I want a default etc directory in my home directory. Like we have a bin, we should have a standard $HOME/etc dir that everything else stores its config files in by default. Just my 0.2 worth.
[–]Daenyth 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Like $XDG_CONFIG_HOME?
$XDG_CONFIG_HOME
[–]gnit 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Like when you first run an app, it should create its config files inside your own etc directory instead of adding its own dot config directory to the already crowded dot list. That way I could have a nice, tidy home directory with all config files stored inside, visible. Dot config directories for each app are a nasty hack.
[–]ICouldUseAHug 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
... so instead of /home/<you>/.<application>/ you want /home/<you>/.config/<application>? because many apps already began doing that. Same shit, different pile, if you ask me. If you dont want your home directory 'messy', clean up old data, don't throw it into its own messy folder instead.
(Or would you prefer /home/<user>/Application Data/Roaming/<Company>/<Arbitrary Subcategory>/<application>?)
Nah, just a /home/<me>/etc/ directory would do. Then I wouldn't have to keep hunting for config files. It makes (a sort of) sense to have the config system mirror the system config system. To me, anyhow.
[–]pupeno 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Why is there a /usr at all? historical reasons.
[–]mojotoad 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
What no /opt ? Ahh, the good ol' wars.
[–]Indubitableness -3 points-2 points-1 points 1 year ago
Yeah variable and et cetera are synonymous....
Shut the fuck up.
all it takes is a username and password
create account
is it really that easy? only one way to find out...
already have an account and just want to login?
login
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