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Fringe Episode Discussion S04E11 "Making Angels" (self.fringe)

submitted ago by saywhat181[M]

I just brought pizza over to edify's house, so he's letting me make the discussion thread post again tonight. Enjoy the episode, guys.

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[–]Bokthand 58 points59 points ago*

Other Olivia is a lot of fun. I like seeing them both in the same place.

[–]DarenDark 18 points19 points ago

them bickering is so awesome :)

[–]InvaderDJ 16 points17 points ago

I'm noticing this Fauxlivia is a lot more antagonistic. She was definitely getting some enjoyment out of trolling Walter.

[–]devils0508 11 points12 points ago

I wouldn't say antagonistic, she has just has a better life than most of the other characters, so she's more care-free and jokes around more. It's all in good fun.

[–]InvaderDJ 1 point2 points ago

Yeah, I agree. I didn't say that in the best way. She does like to joke around and I think she got some enjoyment out of trolling Walter.

[–]garoorag 6 points7 points ago

Plus, unlike the previous Fauxlivia, she hasn't spent months toying with Walter's son's feelings, and sleeping with him. So she can be more casual about the whole thing than in the timeline we remember.

(I'm not certain the writers considered that aspect, but she was so unbearably light-hearted in this episode that I want to believe they did.)

[–]InvaderDJ 2 points3 points ago

I think this makes sense. She has been pretty light hearted and playful the whole season so I do think this was intentional.

[–]blackbright 5 points6 points ago

I'm actually starting to like Other Olivia more than our one. She's so carefree and has a nice smile.

[–]williamrmyers 2 points3 points ago

I don't like here. She Sadistically mocks absolutely every idea presented to her. I guess Olivia does it too but she just seems skeptical.

load more comments (1 reply)

    [–]christinax 50 points51 points ago

    Alstrid's reaction to coffee was adorable and fantastic.

    [–]PhilipGreenbriar 9 points10 points ago

    Astrid

    Astro.

    FIFY

    [–]TenEighths 10 points11 points ago

    Astro

    Asprin.

    FTFY

    [–]bhrgunatha 10 points11 points ago

    Astro

    Asprin.

    Asterix

    FTFY

    [–]wartornhero 4 points5 points ago

    Astro

    Asprin.

    Asterix

    Claire

    FTFY

    [–]AlecDTatum 6 points7 points ago

    Asterix

    Ostrich.

    FTFY

    [–]Zimb0 14 points15 points ago

    My reaction to alt sides lack of coffee was shock and awe.

    [–]Rolcol 30 points31 points ago

    This isn't the first time they have said that coffee is rare. When Peter first wakes up in his mother's house in the Red universe (S02E22), she pours him coffee. Elizabeth says that coffee is rare, but Walternate has connections.

    Also, Red Olivia ordered coffee in S03E08 before returning to her own universe.

    [–]Baelorn 19 points20 points ago

    The first time it is mentioned is when the building from both universes try to occupy the same space and merge together. I can't recall the episode name.

    [–]Rolcol 6 points7 points ago*

    Jacksonville, S02E15?

    Edit: Yep, that must be it. Huh, I didn't notice it then. Thanks for pointing that out.

    [–]ByTheHammerOfThor 12 points13 points ago

    Whenever they reaffirm the rarity of coffee, all I can think is: "This makes christmas and birthday gifts for anyone in the Redverse so easy."

    [–]Zimb0 3 points4 points ago

    Holy shit, you're right! Completely slipped my mind. Still sad :-(.

    [–]plasm0dium 13 points14 points ago

    Shiitake happens.

    [–]doctoraw 0 points1 point ago

    I liked that detail _^

    [–]danceswithsmurfs 14 points15 points ago

    Fringe division should start a coffee import business. I can't be the only one who was thinking this, can I? Interdimensonal peace through coffee sharing. It's so perfect!

    [–]blackbright 4 points5 points ago

    That's what I was thinking. Surely the redverse has some trade item which we could do with as an exchange and a good will measure.

    Hmm, but now that I think about it. The parallel universes are a secret from the majority of the population so if coffee suddenly showed up it might raise suspicions from some people.

    [–]IFightForTheLosers 3 points4 points ago

    Yeah....When they made the bridge I thought "Alright, they can import sheep back into Redverse!" but people would definitely start asking questions if sheep suddenly popped back into existence. *sigh* A world without cute fluffy sheep.....

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

    Considering the fact that agriculture Over There is messed up enough that sheep are extinct I don't think it's that surprising

    [–]craig3010 46 points47 points ago

    This was such a great episode, Jasika Nicole really did a great job.

    [–]Yorrick_Brown 38 points39 points ago

    I really like Funlivia. Flirting with Walter? Awesome.

    [–]InvaderDJ 10 points11 points ago

    Yeah, I like her better than the original Fauxlivia, she seems so vibrant and care free in this reality.

    [–]bquade 6 points7 points ago

    I started to warm up to her at the end, but most of the middle of the episode I thought she was being a complete bitch... haha.

    [–]nitesmokeDecember 36 points37 points ago

    Did the observer just pass through solid glass?

    [–]NeilPoonHandler 24 points25 points ago

    He sure did, buddy!

    [–]Rolcol 18 points19 points ago

    It didn't seem like he just walked though it. He materialized from a reflection and disappeared in the same way.

    [–]mirror_truth 20 points21 points ago

    He didn't pass through it so much as materialize from it.

    [–]doctoraw 12 points13 points ago

    You have to know it, you are mirror_truth!

    [–]chanelleol 3 points4 points ago

    But we saw him on the other side of it before he came out. It kind of reminded me of the episode in season 1 when they were taking all the safety deposit boxes Walter had set up years ago by walking through walls.

    [–]swirlloop 28 points29 points ago

    Well, I'm excited. I love episodes where everyone and their doubles are interacting.

    [–]plasm0dium 26 points27 points ago

    The Astrid handshake camerawork was flawless

    [–]chanelleol 4 points5 points ago

    I don't think I've ever seen a scene where one of the characters was interacting with their alternate and it not looked as if they were using a body double and/or a twin.

    [–]Token_BlackGirl 69 points70 points ago

    I have the strangest urge to buy a Nissan Leaf.

    [–]plasm0dium 52 points53 points ago

    Check his urethra. Kirk out.

    [–]bardlo 12 points13 points ago

    If I'm a criminal and the FBI shows up in a Nissan Leaf I'm going to laugh my ass off.

    [–]gschizas 4 points5 points ago

    But it's so energy efficient!

    [–]Buzz967 22 points23 points ago

    The idea of the device is interesting. Does it's existence mean that Observers are chosen to be Observers?

    [–]JustSomeRedditor 6 points7 points ago

    I don't think Observers are even human.

    [–]ebonwumon 9 points10 points ago

    Remember that empath kid from season 1 or 2?

    [–]30percentAlpaca 3 points4 points ago

    I do, but I don't understand what your point is. Can you elaborate?

    [–]ebonwumon 6 points7 points ago

    It was always my reading of the scene at the end when he interacted with the observer that he was slated to become one. That's definitely the feeling I was getting from the show, but it was never revisted.

    [–]30percentAlpaca 5 points6 points ago

    I see what you mean, but I think the general assumption/consensus is that he is an Observer. Or at least he is the same stock and breed as they are, even if he doesn't actually go and observe events like our friends in suits and fedoras. This would go off the facts that he: was much older than would make sense (if you count by our linear progression of time), and that he knew of events without being there (he wrote names and places for Olivia on the notepad).

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      [–]gschizas 2 points3 points ago

      Wow... And I had failed to realize why the coded message spelled EMPATH.

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        [–]ihateyoursister 2 points3 points ago

        The Observer had antibodies to the Spanish Flu. So he was presumably human (or a pig, as pigs could also contract that virus) at least back in 1918-1920. And since time means nothing to them, probably always human. But there's surely a twist.

        [–]IFightForTheLosers 5 points6 points ago

        I like your theory. He was probably a pig XD

        [–]NovaDeez 2 points3 points ago

        That's going to be the big twist, like in Hitchhiker's Guide when you find out that mice are the most intelligent species on the planet.

        [–]doctoraw 2 points3 points ago

        I don't think so if you could become one if you are smart enough.

        [–]doctoraw 2 points3 points ago

        I'm confused.. Is the device what transform the maths teacher into an observer or was it his research? Or a combination?

        [–]InvaderDJ 11 points12 points ago

        I'm thinking so. He may have been able to reverse engineer the device or fix it since he was already interested in similar stuff, but the device does seem to be thing that allowed him to See all points in time at the same time.

        I was really hoping that at the end of the episode we see the guy wake up, shave his head and then meet up with the other Observers. That would have been a nice mind fuck.

        [–]AnonymousAutonomous 4 points5 points ago

        He seemed honest in his own accomplishment, so its not the devices doing. Which he made from his own work, unless something "inspired" him

        [–]trippingwalrus 5 points6 points ago

        He was at the lake the night that alt-Peter died while crossing over with Walter in 1985 and picked up that Observer's device when that Observer failed to save alt-Peter.

        [–]L1ghtsaber 8 points9 points ago

        Or it got lost in the water and washed up later.

        [–]DaveBowman 1 point2 points ago

        Grand theory here: The math teacher built it, then at some point gave it to September; blanks to be filled out.

        [–]thesaintoftous 21 points22 points ago

        This was an excellent episode. I was wondering how/when the other observers would learn about September's "defection"

        One persistent theory I do have from "Back to Where You've Never Been", I would have posted it in the episode discussion but I was unaware of this subreddit at the time,

        So, we can assume that the Observers are prescient. At the very least they don't experience time in the same way as normal people do, and that is why they are able to create such elaborate "tests" and "experiments" from complicated interconnected probabilities and events where other people just see a lot of convolution. They can see the future, they can travel between all(?) points at time at will, they can interact with any technology with a touch, and they can grab bullets out of the air and kick ass when necessary, and from September's appearance in S04E08 we learn that they can be shot and they can bleed. We've only seen one other observer "defect" and die, August.

        So my question is, Who shot September? If they are prescient, and have the ability to snatch bullets, How could anyone have shot him? I believe that, at whatever unspecified time in the future, September either "accepts" the experience of being shot by someone who otherwise couldn't OR he is shot by someone who is able to exist outside of chronological causality. An anomaly, either one of the other observers or even Peter Bishop. This all has to do with Olivia's supposedly preordained death, but I can't imagine what.

        Any thoughts? my apologies in advance if this is in the wrong place.

        [–]kbennett73 9 points10 points ago

        Maybe September allows himself to get shot as a way to prevent Olivia from being shot. He told her he had seen all possible futures and in every future she had to die. Maybe at some point he realizes he's the only one who can alter that fact and he decides to let himself be killed in her place instead of letting her die.

        [–]30percentAlpaca 2 points3 points ago

        I agree. The episode August was definitely a set up for the audience to see and understand that the Observers normally don't, but can interfere for personal reasons, and that may involve letting themselves get hurt or die for it.

        [–]doctoraw 3 points4 points ago

        If the observers can die, where do they find a new one?

        I think your comment links very well with this episode. What is what makes you an observer? The device? The vision of the past-present-future?

        If the main villain of this episode is able to do almost everything an observer could do, does it mean it could be other observers around outside the Month Observers Club? Do they have enemies?

        [–]DarenDark 7 points8 points ago

        Keep in mind he cant catch bullets in his hand and he cant open locks by just pressing his hand. So there are other things that make them observers.

        Plus the producers have said that the observers are removed from our world altogether.

        [–]DaveBowman 2 points3 points ago

        I think your comment links very well with this episode. What is what makes you an observer? The device? The vision of the past-present-future?

        Full list of people with Observer-like powers would be, in no particular order:

        • The Observers
        • Emily from 4x10
        • Milo from 3x03
        • Altstrid
        • Neil from 4x11
        • "Observer" Kid

        Anyone missing?

        Another thing, and to say it with Walternate's words: The fact that there are others around with Observer-like powers is interesting and peculiar in its own distinct way.

        [–]lendrick 5 points6 points ago

        I don't really think Altstrid is meant to seem as if she has observer-like powers -- I think she's just a savant. Very good at seeing patterns and such (our Astrid has similar abilities, although not quite as pronounced).

        [–]chanelleol 3 points4 points ago

        They get little boys who are found under condemned buildings ready to be blown up.

        [–]doctoraw 0 points1 point ago*

        OMG I forget her :)

        Edit: him.

        [–]itgoesthere 4 points5 points ago

        Him.

        [–]doctoraw 3 points4 points ago

        Ok, I forget more than I imagine :)

        [–]BigRelic 2 points3 points ago

        I'm totally blanking out. When did August defect and die?

        [–]blackbright 4 points5 points ago

        The episode where he fell in love with a girl. She was preodained to die but he gave his life to save her, to make her special.

        load more comments (1 reply)

          [–]prod44 22 points23 points ago

          Haha, had totally forgotten about Vagenda!

          [–]Bobiz42 57 points58 points ago

          Scumbag TSA.

          [–]SPESSMEHREN 81 points82 points ago

          Fox Mulder at the airport, 1997: flashes his badge and gets a private escort to a different terminal. Metal detector goes off when he passes through it while carrying two pistols and talking on his cell phone? No problem, flashes his badge and the airport guy lets him take a peek at his X-ray. (The X-Files, Season 4, episode 18: Max)

          Olivia Dunham at the airport, 2012: Tries to stop bad guy, gets stopped by TSA. Flashes her badge, is a terrorist.

          [–]craig3010 19 points20 points ago

          As if we needed another reason to hate them!

          [–]NovaDeez 1 point2 points ago

          Does anyone know? Does the TSA really have power to actively stop FBI agents in the middle of pursuit of a suspected serial killer?

          [–]IFightForTheLosers 20 points21 points ago

          This was such a beautiful, touching ep, well worth the wait! Altstrid turned out to be such an adorable character, it's sad to think both Astrids will be relegated to the background once more after this ep. I can really imagine how emotional this ep must have been for Jasika, because of her sister. Altstrid's sorrow about her father not loving her as much must have really hit home.

          So, what was that vial, concentrated Eau de September? If this is what enables Observers to be the way they are, why did its loss have no effect on September? More to the point, the kid in Inner Child had no such device. What caused September to lose it in the first place? Is it connected to why he didn't save Peter in this timeline?

          Would this new Observer be 'March'? He looked older than September though...

          No Blue Lincoln in this ep, and I couldn't see him in the next week preview either, are those eps designed to let Olivia appreciate what a superior partner Peter is? I really get the feeling that this timeline has no room for the two of them. I feel conflicted about that, I've never been fond of Blue Lincoln, but I don't much like the way his character is being handled. Last week, pretty much every single one of his lines could have been delivered by some random FBI grunt. This week he's not even there. Of all the chars, he got the weakest link to the plot and no strong connections to the other characters. He feels like such an outsider to the story and it seems the writers can't integrate him in the eps in a meaningful way. I think he's doomed to be in Peter's shadow for as long as he's in this timeline. Maybe it would be better if he died in an important way, instead of feeling like such a third wheel. It's really sad because he was showing such promise in 4x08 and now it's like we're back at the starting point, where he's behaving like a whiny child and basically just tagging along.

          On a side note, Fauxlivia's not interested in Peter this time around? And she's into nice guys? Maybe Red Lincoln will finally have his chance after all.

          [–]doctoraw 3 points4 points ago

          Apparently Seth Gabel -Lincoln- is the main character of a movie filmed in 2011.

          I think he has the time to be in a movie and two scenes or three every now and then ;)

          [–]IFightForTheLosers 2 points3 points ago

          If they can't have him around for an ep, it would be a great opportunity to have Charlie pop up back from his honeymoon. Just sayin' ¬.¬

          [–]wildcard58 4 points5 points ago*

          Eau de September

          Ha... I think the way Observers are the way they are allowed them to construct the device, not the other way around. So the TSA agent could still have been able to see past/present/future (since he figured out "the equations" on his own?), but wouldn't have had the device if not for September.

          I think based on the glyph code it's a safe bet that he's called "March," they have referred to each other by name before so perhaps it will come up later.

          EDIT: Observers have referred to each other by name before (source).

          [–]roar_error 2 points3 points ago

          Team Red Lincoln here, I hope he'll get his chance too. I think Fauxlivia doesn't consider Peter as a viable dating option, seeing how he's from the other universe and he insists on being from a different timeline too.

          Lincoln as a character seems to have so much potential, and we never see it being reached. Maybe one day. Instead of telling us he plays chess with Walter I would have preferred to have seen that interaction.

          [–]30percentAlpaca 2 points3 points ago

          She said she likes nice guys. I wondered if Lincoln qualifies as a nice guy. Or rather, what her definition of nice guy is. Some people mean pushover when they say nice guy, and others mean someone who really is just nice.

          [–]uvarov 1 point2 points ago

          Lincoln's actor's wife had a kid about two weeks ago, so I imagine he's just a little busy.

          [–]MileStretch 31 points32 points ago

          Hmmmm ... did the mathematician shoot September with that bullet that Olivia knows wasn't meant for her?

          [–]lildiez5000 24 points25 points ago

          I was thinking the same thing! The second he aimed and shot it away from her and through the window i went "September? Did you get shot by this dude? September...?"

          [–]Gauntlet 10 points11 points ago

          Especially with the Observer emerging from a window at the beginning of the episode.

          [–]IFightForTheLosers 4 points5 points ago

          Hmm....Is this how they can observe people around the world? Through reflective surfaces?

          [–]rntmzb 3 points4 points ago

          I don't think September had a role in that moment. To me, the mathematician had basically foreseen how the rest of his life would go if he was captured, so he created the situation in which he would be shot and killed, even though he had no interest in hitting Olivia or whoever else may have come through the door. It seems more likely that there would be much higher stakes for which Olivia would supposedly have to die. Obviously, though, this episode was a step toward whatever is going on with September.

          [–]GruxKing 31 points32 points ago

          "Dr. Bishop, Your Astrid is summoning you!"

          [–]techtakular 17 points18 points ago

          Alt-strid needs a hug D: I wish I could giver her one... darn you Jasika Nicole....

          [–]Jesusforall 23 points24 points ago

          Having a device fall into the wrong hands, shiitake happens.

          [–]Tagard_McStone 6 points7 points ago

          buying that apron

          [–]saywhat181[S] 11 points12 points ago

          Astro Astrid episode.

          [–]MntnDw 8 points9 points ago*

          So her alt name is Altstrid? Any other version is for our Astrid. How many are there?

          • Aspirin
          • Asterisk
          • Astro

          [–]AgentAsterisk 24 points25 points ago

          You rang?

          [–]Rolcol 8 points9 points ago

          Two more:

          • Asteroid
          • Ostrich

          [–]kyle90 5 points6 points ago

          I thought B-universe Astrid would be called Bstrid.

          [–]notsureifdog 2 points3 points ago

          I think that red Astrid should be referred to as Astrid, whereas blue Astrid is any of the other names.

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            [–]wildcard58 7 points8 points ago

            By far the best line of the episode was when Walter called alt-Astrid "Astrid" and our Astrid goes "You got her name right!?!?"

            [–]Lillipout 4 points5 points ago

            I was hoping at the very end that Astrid's father would hug her and call her Asteroid.

            [–]bquade 2 points3 points ago

            I'm so glad I'm not the only one that was hoping for this!

            [–]NeilPoonHandler 10 points11 points ago

            Did anybody else notice the dude's gate number or whatever on his airplane ticket was 47A? Nice easter egg!

            [–]atomicbison 6 points7 points ago

            I think it might have been his seat number - what does it mean?

            [–]NeilPoonHandler 7 points8 points ago

            The number 47 frequently appears in J.J. Abrams-produced shows and movies: Lost, Alias, Star Trek - you name it! It's a little inside joke/Easter egg for his devoted fans.

            [–]HenOida 10 points11 points ago*

            The TSA badge number of the Angel of Death was 0047, which I'm taking as a combination of this and his perceived divine license to kill (cf. the 00- designation in the James Bond books and movies).

            [–]swirlloop 9 points10 points ago

            INCORRECT! It started long before JJ Abrams, it's been a staple of the Sci-Fi universe for ages. Star Trek writers would try to include 47 in as many episodes as you could.

            People joke it's the meaning of life (42) with inflation. There are even people who try to find it in as many ways as possible in their daily lives. Apparently it began in 1964.

            [–]NeilPoonHandler 4 points5 points ago

            Yep, you're right, sir- after seeing 47 in tonight's episode, I did a little research and discovered the Star Trek connection as well.

            Fascinating stuff - I guess Abrams was a fan of the way the various Trek spin-offs implemented the number, and he clearly decided to pay homage to it by including it frequently in his own created works. I hope he continues to do so for the rest of his (hopefully long and fruitful) career.

            [–]comatose_frog 5 points6 points ago

            where was it in lost?

            [–]manwithabadheart 2 points3 points ago

            47 isn't a number in LOST.

            [–]Rolcol 11 points12 points ago*

            This is the first time they officially called him "September". If I remember correctly, it was speculation from some evidence that Fox put in an episode description?

            [–]Pixel64 3 points4 points ago

            I believe he was called September before, but I have no source on that. I'm just going off a fallible memory.

            [–]30percentAlpaca 3 points4 points ago

            The actors have called his character September in Fox's little mini interviews on their Fringe site/page.

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              [–]WiiAreMarshall 11 points12 points ago

              Well, that was hardly Astrid-centric.

              [–]jjswee 4 points5 points ago

              Hopefully the Fringe writers read how much the fans liked Astrid playing a more front character, and they will move forwards towards an Astrid-centric episode.

              [–]plasm0dium 4 points5 points ago

              I was worried for a second that we might have discovered that alt-Astrid was actually a cyborg or something. I'm glad that's not the case.

              [–]christinax 18 points19 points ago

              Did anybody else feel really sad for Amber!Blue Astrid at the end?

              At first when I saw the scene between her and her father, I thought she was lying to protect her double. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized it was probably truth. The way Astrid said she wanted to talk about it, but her father knew she couldn't... It's just Astrid who's more at fault for closing off the relationship due to reasons beyond her control.

              Not only that, but she's living with her father at this age- not that I'm critical, but...I'm not sure how to articulate it. She's working a job that takes over most of her life. Her mother died when she was a child and doesn't seem to have any siblings.

              [–]InvaderDJ 21 points22 points ago

              I didn't get that. It seemed like they were really close, as close as a relationship could be with someone who deals with classified material. I think she just lied to protect Altstrid, which is a really heart hitting idea.

              [–]notsureifdog 4 points5 points ago

              I think a lot of credit goes to Jasika Nicole's acting. I thought for sure they were building Astrid's Dad to have some type of disability or mental disorder himself. She sold it to me as she sold it to her double.

              [–]InvaderDJ 3 points4 points ago

              That would have been a good twist, if Astrid's father was autistic instead of Astrid.

              load more comments (4 replies)

                [–]TenEighths 12 points13 points ago

                Is it confirmed that Astrid lives with her dad? I got the impression that she was just dropping by for a visit.

                [–]chanelleol 3 points4 points ago

                What if she lives with her dad, or her dad with her? Peter lives with Walter, different circumstances, I know. I wouldn't say it's Astrid's fault they aren't as close as she would like. Her dad clearly understood her work was highly classified and that's why she couldn't talk about it.

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                  [–]edify 8 points9 points ago

                  Observer in the background after the guy gets hit by a car!

                  [–]samspopguy 5 points6 points ago

                  saw him too did anyone see him on the first two killings

                  load more comments (1 reply)

                    [–]GruxKing 8 points9 points ago

                    Did anyone notice that cute little "uhg" look that Olivia gave Fauxlivia when Fauxlivia was like "food in the fridge?"

                    [–]Deep-Thought 7 points8 points ago

                    why does walter hate alt-olivia in the peterless timeline?

                    [–]cocoasammy 16 points17 points ago

                    I think even though Peter wasn't involved with olivia in this timeline, fauxlivia still infiltrated our side and betrayed Walter's trust

                    [–]TenEighths 8 points9 points ago

                    And it makes sense that he would be so upset with her, because without Peter around Olivia would have been spending more time with Walter trying to get information, etc. out of him.

                    [–]samspopguy 11 points12 points ago

                    because she still went to (our) side and pretended to be (our) olivia

                    i think at least not sure how she crossed though

                    [–]atomicbison 16 points17 points ago

                    although I suppose he's never had a chance/need to say vagenda in this timeline, which is a damn shame.

                    [–]samspopguy 5 points6 points ago

                    still my new favorite word

                    [–]30percentAlpaca 2 points3 points ago

                    Let's not forget that this Olivia is closer with Walter. That means his pain would have been greater to know that Olivia was taken and etc they did to her, and that he would have felt a greater affection for the fake at the same time (meaning deeper betrayal)

                    [–]Bobiz42 8 points9 points ago

                    So... wait, did the guys equations end up working or was it all the device?

                    [–]christinax 12 points13 points ago

                    I'm not sure. At first I thought it was implying that he was turning into an Observer, or something similar. As far as the device goes, if time irrelevant to Observers, then why does it matter if September lost the device in the eighties or next Thursday? I mean, I get that he probably intentionally lost it, but still.

                    [–]piderman 2 points3 points ago

                    Why does The Doctor ever run? Makes for 'good' TV :)

                    [–]Netarum 2 points3 points ago

                    I thought that this was kinda of a origin story of an observer too. Somehow he would decide it was futile to interfere the events, and he would stick to observing them. Then the observers would welcome him into the fold and give him a drug that makes him immortal (as I assume the way the observers are). Of course the drug will have the side-effect of making all his hair fallout.

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                      [–]craig3010 7 points8 points ago

                      He was a smart guy, maybe he used the equations to confirm what the device told him? Or maybe it was part of his psychosis; he didn't believe what the device told him so he needed to rationalize it with his equations. Plus his mom wasn't the greatest person.

                      [–]TheNavidsonLP 5 points6 points ago

                      I think it was mostly the Observer tech that told him people's futures. He was already slightly crazy and rationalized the Observer tech with his work as a mathematician. As much as Fringe is a science fiction show, I hate the cliche of "too much math can solve everything!"

                      [–]TexasJefferson 3 points4 points ago

                      I hate the cliche of "too much math can solve everything!"

                      Yes, one needs too much measurement first!

                      [–]christinax 7 points8 points ago

                      I got EMPATH as the glyph code, which I'm pretty sure isn't a real word, but could mean somebody who's empathetic?

                      [–]IFightForTheLosers 16 points17 points ago

                      Empath refers to someone who reads other people's minds or emotions. It's probably not in the dictionary, but it's a sci-fi/paranormal word.

                      [–]shpanky 6 points7 points ago

                      That would be a telepath that can read minds or emotions. An empath FEELS what others feel and reacts the same way...they don't consciously read anything.

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                        [–]frid 3 points4 points ago

                        Was the name of a TOS Star Trek episode (Kirk out?).

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                          [–]IFightForTheLosers 7 points8 points ago

                          Reading through comments on another board and seeing a mention of Emily's lake house, a thought just struck me. Was that lake house at Reiden lake? What if she came in contact with September's thingamajig? She had no mind-reading powers like Neil, but maybe her exposure was just too brief for that. If so, that would mean the Observers' future reading is not absolute. We saw very clearly that the future she envisioned could be avoided. That means September's dire prophecy for Olivia is by no means set in stone.

                          It just seems like an odd coincidence that we have two characters who could predict the future in two episodes in a row. They explained her future sight as some weird configuration of her brain, but maybe the device alters the brain of those who come in contact with it. If that's so, there might be a slew of other chars out there with Observer-like powers because they went skinny-dipping near September's glowing rod (sorry for the double entendre).

                          [–]HenOida 3 points4 points ago

                          One specific thing I was hoping to see this season was a meeting between the Astrids. I had some ideas about what they could do with it, but the episode handled it far better than what I had in mind when the season was starting, which I was impelled to look back at:

                          Ever since the finale, one of the scenes I thought would be neat to see would involve the two Astrids meeting. The scene would contrast the caring side of Astrid ... with Altrid's Asperger's and the resulting barrier between the two. Astrid would be sad and would also gain empathy for the other universe. It would be the kind of sweet and poignant character moment Fringe does so well, and doubly so since Jasika Nicole's sister has Asperger's in real life.

                          Alt-Astrid showing empathy and emotion ... that was remarkable and emotionally powerful writing and performing. Her interaction with Walter was a nice surprise, too. Also, this being Fringe, it made good sense to enrich the Astrids' backstory by touching on their relationships with their parents.

                          [–]roar_error 5 points6 points ago

                          Well, at least Walter prefers Lincoln.
                          L. Lee - 1, P. Bishop - infinity.

                          [–]Rolcol 3 points4 points ago

                          Why does Peter get infinity?

                          [–]RedDyeNumber4 13 points14 points ago

                          Because he got divided by zero.

                          [–]roar_error 2 points3 points ago

                          Several times too, in different universes/timelines.

                          [–]roar_error 2 points3 points ago

                          It's all about Peter's (currently missing) peacoat. And Olivias. But mostly the peacoat.

                          [–]InvaderDJ 4 points5 points ago

                          The interaction between Walter and Altstrid was great in this episode, I honestly want to see more of it. Two mentally scarred geniuses who don't do well socially but can understand each other is such a good story.

                          And plus, they'd make the ultimate team. Walter's science with Altstrid's analysis and statistics, each case would be solved in like ten minutes.

                          [–]HugoLoft 5 points6 points ago

                          Shiitake Happens. Best apron ever on Astrid's dad.

                          [–]aerosweaty 8 points9 points ago

                          The Nissan plug (pun intended) was shameless. But all in all a great episode! I never realized how much I love Astrid!

                          [–]Tagard_McStone 23 points24 points ago

                          If Nissan puts a million $$$ down and we get a 5th season, I'm fine. FOX gotta make money and Peacoats don't buy themselves.

                          [–]jjswee 9 points10 points ago

                          I completely agree! They can have all the plugs they want, as long is it doesn't affect the show like one of the more recent episodes where Olivia started talking about the car.

                          [–]wildcard58 4 points5 points ago

                          Same here, the Subway stuff in Chuck was a little annoying but I guess it's the price we have to pay for liking good TV as opposed to the crap shows that pay the bills.

                          [–]walterwoodsiv 5 points6 points ago

                          Because Chuck is a comedy, I thought the Subway product placement was hilarious.

                          [–]wildcard58 2 points3 points ago

                          It did make it a little more palatable (terrible pun intended) that they could lean on the fourth wall a little bit and play with it, but any really blatant product placement just bothers me on principle.

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                                [–]plasm0dium 13 points14 points ago

                                They gotta pay the bills somehow. Funny how they had a big SUV before , and now they are all going green now

                                [–]Musti_ 2 points3 points ago

                                Yeah..I don't like the product placement too because it just removes me from the story and I have to get back into it (takes a good minute or two). But the thing I've noticed with Fringe is that there are 'slow' episodes (not slow, I just don't know a better word) then there are a few episodes with insane special effects and all that kinda stuff.

                                With each episode costing a few mill I guess the placement has to be done for the show to survive. The worst was in last season when Olivia would answer the phone in the car. With tonight's episode though - are there actually Nissan charging stations around the country?

                                [–]manwithabadheart 3 points4 points ago

                                Didn't even notice it. What happened?

                                [–]PlatonicTroglodyte 27 points28 points ago

                                Someone give Jaskia Nicole a fucking emmy already!!!

                                [–]NeilPoonHandler 15 points16 points ago

                                Indeed - the interactions between the two Astrids were at times adorable and sometimes heartbreaking. That was a brilliant performance.

                                [–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago

                                And however they got them to shake hands was some great cinematography/special effects.

                                [–]IFightForTheLosers 3 points4 points ago

                                I'm still puzzling out that one. I suspect they composited Astrid's head on top of a body double, like they did in Tron Legacy. Just paint the 'superfluous' actress' head green and it'll cleanly come off in compositing. Fun fact, that's how they do beheadings in Game of Thrones :)

                                [–]piderman 6 points7 points ago

                                Good thing there are enough Emmies for both her and John Noble!

                                [–]rushpup 2 points3 points ago

                                Yep. Add her to the list.

                                [–]pfitz6 8 points9 points ago

                                Yeah, alt Olivia way hotter. Put a little kapow in a woman and she'll spice everything up.

                                [–]styroteqe 6 points7 points ago

                                Also, was Astrid lying to Alt-strid re:father (to make her feel better perhaps)? Or did she just make the extra effort to connect with him at the end of the episode? They sure seemed close.

                                [–]plasm0dium 9 points10 points ago

                                Astrid's house sure looks like Peter's house

                                [–]Rolcol 7 points8 points ago

                                He was very welcoming and interested in how Astrid's day was. It looks like she lied.

                                [–]HarryOru 5 points6 points ago

                                I'm pretty sure she lied to Altstrid.

                                [–]kbennett73 6 points7 points ago

                                I don't think she lied completely. I think when she told Alt-strid about her father having difficulty sharing his emotions or connecting with her, she was actually talking about herself rather than about her father. She can't tell him about her job or about anything she sees or does all day, which probably causes an emotional distance between them, but that emotional distance is her fault, not his fault.

                                Maybe she didn't want to admint to Alt-strid that she was the one who couldn't connect with her father rather than vice versa, so she was describing herself and her own problems but ascribing those qualities to her father.

                                [–]InvaderDJ 3 points4 points ago

                                It seemed to me that Astrid was lying. Her father didn't seem that surprised to see her and they had a pretty easy rapport. Astrid just wanted to help Altstrid.

                                [–]styroteqe 3 points4 points ago

                                Great episode, again. Though I wish they'd tried to explain what/how the device worked. Also, was really hoping he was a rogue Observer. Thought we might finally find out what John Mosley was :D

                                [–]roar_error 4 points5 points ago

                                Are they still filming in Vancouver? The lakehouse area looked exactly like the lake from last week. Gorgeous scenery.

                                [–]WiiAreMarshall 3 points4 points ago

                                I live near St. Louis, I have charter cable, and halfway through either the second or third commercial break, there were two quick (a few frames) flashes. One of September, and one of Walternate in a lab coat holding (what I think is) a shapeshifter disk. Was this intentional? Did it happen everywhere? It was between two local commercials.

                                [–]ntr0p3 4 points5 points ago

                                Have you noticed a new bridge recently appear out of nowhere nearby?

                                [–]friendlyhumanist 3 points4 points ago

                                Does anybody know who played the MIT/TSA/killer guy? It's not on IMDB and I swear I've seen him before.

                                [–][deleted] 4 points5 points ago

                                This dude

                                http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1977856/

                                [–]friendlyhumanist 9 points10 points ago

                                The bank guy from the Dark Knight! Thank you, internet!

                                [–][deleted] 8 points9 points ago

                                Very good, Mr. Lau.

                                [–]styroteqe 2 points3 points ago

                                Just accidentally wasting my time-space.

                                [–]Bobiz42 7 points8 points ago

                                Onions.

                                [–]Zimb0 6 points7 points ago

                                They need sugar.

                                [–]techtakular 3 points4 points ago

                                Sooo many.... T.T

                                [–]JustSomeRedditor 0 points1 point ago

                                Why does no one seem to find it weird that Olivia almost word to word repeated what the guy said after she shot him? She couldn't have possibly understood this case that well. That also didn't seem like awful writing, but rather intentional. Any theories?

                                [–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

                                "Check his crotch" - What, no more anus?

                                I think Peter will use the "Spacetime Flattener™" and the help of September to get home. I'm assuming the bullet that didn't hit Olivia hit September, explaining the bullet wound Olivia saw an episode or two back. I hope Peter getting back to his universe doesn't mean the death of September.

                                I like that Walter was listening to Violet Sedan Chair's "Keep Climbing" meaning it's still relevant to the Fringe mythos.

                                Was the mathematician's mother reading his mind?

                                [–]bardlo 3 points4 points ago

                                God is the only thing that makes sense? Wtf Walter, way to roll back science 1000 years.

                                [–]TenEighths 15 points16 points ago

                                he didn't mean literally God, he meant someone or something with omniscient powers.

                                [–]wildcard58 7 points8 points ago

                                Definitely, he went right to "or Godlike powers" when he was trying to figure out what was going on. I wonder how Walter in the original timeline would have reacted, considering he would have experienced the events of "White Tulip"?

                                [–]TenEighths 2 points3 points ago

                                He probably would have reacted in the same way, or at least a similar way maybe referencing the observers. I don't think the events of "White Tulip" changed his view on Fringe events such as the one from this episode.

                                [–]Samgeeky 12 points13 points ago

                                I think he was saying the Observers were involved, yeah?

                                [–]piderman 3 points4 points ago

                                You'd be surprised.

                                (TL;DW: Newton and Huygens only 300 years ago invoked "God must have done it" when they reached the seeming end of their knowledge)

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                                  [–]piderman 0 points1 point ago

                                  Who leaves their door unlocked? Well someone who can see into the future of course! No burglars, no lock.

                                  [–]JustAnotherImmigrant 5 points6 points ago

                                  It wasn't unlocked. Olivia was being sarcastic because she picked the lock.

                                  [–]SageOfTheWise 5 points6 points ago

                                  I thought they had started picking the lock to realize it was already unlocked.

                                  [–]infintex 1 point2 points ago

                                  good episode, i thought that the guy was going to turn into an observer or something since he could see past,present, and future, guess not lol

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