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[–]WendyLRogers3 8 points9 points ago

If you can ever visit the Pearl Harbor Memorial, you will know it is not forgotten. I advise you to go early, because the land museum is crowded. It is always crowded, from open to close. And the boats that take you from the land to the Arizona memorial are always full, and there is a time limit at the memorial itself, before you must return, so the next group can arrive.

The US Navy is there, and so are volunteers who were in the Navy that was. Old people with unique stories they want to tell, on behalf of those who are no longer around. So that people will know, and remember.

[–]hearshot 1 point2 points ago

When I went today for the memorial event, the line to get in before the doors even opened was at least 500 strong, probably even more, and that was the general audience line. I got there at 6, the doors weren't opening for about another hour.

[–]akep[S] 1 point2 points ago

I didn't know it was that popular. I'll have to see it when I take a hop out there.

[–]brucemo 14 points15 points ago

That is a good story but I think the term "suicide bomber" may be out of place, since that wasn't doctrine until later in the war.

If that happened I would have to speculate that the Japanese airman was making a choice due to having a crippled plane.

[–]stealthshadow 5 points6 points ago

I think regardless of that detail, akep makes a good point. It was tragic.

[–]mkosmo 0 points1 point ago

If that happened I would have to speculate that the Japanese airman was making a choice due to having a crippled plane.

That is a documented truth.

[–]brucemo 1 point2 points ago

The reason I used "if that happened" was not as a means of expressing skepticism regarding the OP's story, but because when a plane hits a ship it's difficult to know whether the pilot made a deliberate choice, the plane hit the ship because the plane was damaged beyond the point of control, or because the pilot was wounded.

[–]CCCPrius 0 points1 point ago

upboat for critical thinking and constructive criticism

[–]akep[S] 0 points1 point ago

I'm going off what he told me, it may have been infact a damaged place instead of a kaikaze bomber. I appologize.

[–]muttonchopman 6 points7 points ago

This is the same reason I want to slap every person who ever says "Happy Veterans Day" to me.

[–]geoffp82 31 points32 points ago

Veterans Day celebrates the living veterans. Memorial Day celebrates the deceased. It's OK to say Happy Veterans Day but not Happy Memorial Day.

[–]Palpz 8 points9 points ago

But what about all the awesome bargains to be had?

[–]Askeee 9 points10 points ago

Don't even get me started on that ಠ_ಠ

[–]biocunsumer 1 point2 points ago

I see you got eye liner...was it on sale?

[–]Askeee 1 point2 points ago

I prefer the term eye emphasizer, tyvm.

[–]biocunsumer 0 points1 point ago

It totally does.

[–]Jehosh 2 points3 points ago

Sometimes, I find myself not liking the direction in policies this country is taking. BUT. I will always respect the armed forces, for the reasons that that veteran stated. Bless you for your service.

[–]akep[S] 1 point2 points ago

Same here, I don't like pretty much any of our presidential candidates but unfortunatly if Obama isn't re-elected I'll have a new boss that I don't agree with even more. But that's another thing all together.

[–]Techno_Shaman 1 point2 points ago

I know this is /military, but mention that you were in uniform at the beginning to avoid a small confusion.

[–]akep[S] 1 point2 points ago

I was hoping we would figure that out without having to mention it. I feel that saying something like that all the time would make people see my posts differently. I don't want people to focus on my affiliation. I get what your saying though, why would some random dude be in a VA clinic - also not stated, I just didn't feel like saying it lol.

[–]Techno_Shaman 0 points1 point ago

Fair enough.

[–]Techno_Shaman 0 points1 point ago

Fair enough.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

Yesterday I put on my uniform and stood at attention at a local memorial for an hour, my boss even allowed me to wear it at work.

[–]wytchfynder 3 points4 points ago

Looking at the list of ships hit in the attack, I don't see any that took an aircraft impact, then a torpedo, before sinking with 200 men lost.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor#Ship_losses

Am I missing something?

[–]StaffSergeant 5 points6 points ago

I'll give the guy the benefit of a doubt, it has been over 60 years now.

[–]wytchfynder -1 points0 points ago

OK, but frankly there are 2 options here -

  1. that he forgot the key details of an attack that killed 200 of his friends, both in terms of misremembering stuff like whether or not an aircraft hit his ship (unless he was on the Curtiss, but that only lost 19 men), but also giving a casualty figure that doesn't match up to ANY of the ships that were lost, or

  2. he wasn't there, and has gained his perspective on Pearl Harbor from (at best) his service elsewhere, or (at worst) from watching Ben Affleck films. In which case, why is it OK for him to lie about being there?

[–]Defiler425 9 points10 points ago*

While I agree with what you are trying to say, I can't discredit 90 year olds straight away either because their senile ass can't remember every fucking detail. My grandmother is 90, she remembers being a welder who used to help build liberty ships in the war, but she also remembers things differently now then she may have 20 years ago, when my dad would point out details she either added or omitted from what he remembers her telling. That doesn't mean she didn't weld ships though.

[–]Furah 3 points4 points ago

The thing you have to realise is that after a long time, your memory of things tends to really go down the drain. That and your mind has a bit of a tendency to 'blend' memories which can sometimes have very negative results.

[–]Frothyleet -1 points0 points ago

Or the OP is bullshitting the entire story.

[–]akep[S] -1 points0 points ago

My story isn't bs. his story, probably.

[–]Frothyleet 1 point2 points ago

I'm not accusing, just filling out the options.

[–]akep[S] -1 points0 points ago

understood.

[–]mkosmo 1 point2 points ago

Several bombs that were near-misses were initially misreported as torpedo (the Arizona is an oft-quoted example). It is plausible that he remembers one as such.

[–]akep[S] 0 points1 point ago

Probably. I wouldn't doubt it. They also talked about very small planes with limited mobility being used to bomb the ships, but I don't know if they used them in Pearl Harbor.

[–]akep[S] 0 points1 point ago

I'm just passing his story on, I don't know if he himself ever got a real account (because I'm sure after he got fixed up he was medically discharged) on the total deaths from his ship, he did tell me there were people on deck and below at the time because he started from below deck and made his way up while people were manning things below. I'm not in the Navy so I don't know if he was manning a destroyer or what, and if they have battlestations below deck. He made it seem like there was a ton of people on one boat, and I'm sure that his accountability skills were nill in that moment. I bet 5 people looked like 40 when your getting shot at by a war plane. btw if you try to do the math, he is/was near 90 years old, the man is ancient. I think he had a glass eye too, it was hard to look him in the eyes as he told me this. And I think on an oxygen tank too. I'm sorry if the numbers are wrong, I'm no buff on Pearl Harbor or anything. I don't even know the dude so he could have probably made it all up for all I know. I don't attend the McClellan Clinic anymore so my chances of meeting him again are non-existant. Edit:forgot a part.

[–]wytchfynder 1 point2 points ago

Certainly, the sentiment of your post still applies and I'm glad you took the time to write this story up. I mean, even if this wasn't THAT PARTICULAR GUY's story, it certainly could have been the story of any of the personnel who were at Pearl Harbor that day, and the fact that no single ship happened to have 200 losses doesn't mean there weren't ships who lost more.

I guess, as a historian, my main concern is that in putting together his story the guy you talked to added in some things generally held to not be true - like the idea that there were suicide bombers, plural, in the Pearl Harbor attack. That matters, because if you're trying to teach kids where the kamikaze waves of later battles came from, and you're trying to make a point about desperation and lack of trained pilots after Marianas, every bit of misinformation about 'kamikazes at Pearh Harbor' is one extra barrier you have to tear down. Vets who wish their story to be remembered should take seriously the task of REMOVING barriers to the truth, not producing them for god know what reason.

[–]akep[S] 0 points1 point ago

That is true. TIL.

[–]Taibo 6 points7 points ago

What ship did he serve on? There weren't any kamikaze pilots at Pearl Harbor, I'm a little suspicious....

[–]aaronb08 2 points3 points ago

Maybe the pilot's plane was damaged and he decided to just crash it into a valuable target. Or perhaps the pilot lost complete control.

[–]mkosmo 3 points4 points ago

Japanese SOP was to use their plane as a weapon if it could serve no further purpose due to damage, etc, so this is plausible.

[–]akep[S] 1 point2 points ago

I didn't ask, I didn't know how to react because I wasn't expecting this story from him. I just said thank you and carried on...it definitely changed my mood and day.

[–]rhymeswithromans -1 points0 points ago

Japanese pilots who knew they were going to crash would often point their planes at targets to ensure that even if they went down they would be able to cause the maximum amount of damage.

[–]Tunafishsam 0 points1 point ago

So what is the correct acknowledgement to make regarding memorial day/pearl harbor day?

[–]akep[S] 0 points1 point ago

I know the wrong way is to hop around like a little school girl with a giant smile going "HAPPY PEARL HARBOR DAY! LETS GET A CAKE!"
We don't see the french and germans running around saying, "HAPPY D-DAY!"

[–]ChrisQF 0 points1 point ago

...I'm glad we don't have anything like this in my country, just 'Remembrance Day'. It actually seems pretty terrible to me that there is a 'Pearl Harbor Day', that kinda sickens me that it seems to be treated as a holiday..

[–]akep[S] 0 points1 point ago

Something like that. I don't think it's all of America or anything, just the select few that don't understand.

[–]ChrisQF 0 points1 point ago

yeah fair enough, guess that's true enough everywhere..

[–]s-kmarti19 0 points1 point ago

SEVENTY years ago!

[–]Iregretthisname 0 points1 point ago

Wow, this is just amazing. Thank you.

[–]soyabstemio -3 points-2 points ago

I call shenanigans.

[–]akep[S] 1 point2 points ago

It's possible. I mean the guy exists and told me this story, that really happened. His story? who knows.