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[–]fastbeemer 6 points7 points ago

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What mission did you go to? I am the same as you...

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points ago

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I served in the Guatemala Quetzaltenango mission.

[–]mjsolaro 5 points6 points ago

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Wow - that is where my dad served. He's an atheist now too.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points ago*

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I don't really know how to answer that. There are many things that I understand why they believe that way (because I once believed it myself) but that doesn't make it true. Things like how, if we live right, we can become gods ourselves and create our own worlds. If you think about it, this sort of explains the question of where God came from. He was once like us and had his own god. We will be gods and create our own world and some of those people will become gods and create their own world. It doesn't answer who was the first god though.

There is the "magic underwear" or garments as members call them. Even when I was a faithful member I didn't really believe the stories of it stopping bullets or people in fires being burned everywhere except where the garments covered. The church in general views them more as a symbolic thing much like other churches have robes or sacred clothing that they wear on the outside.

There is the thing about not letting blacks get the priesthood. This makes sense when you think of when it happened. The church was already fringe and facing persecution because if it's beliefs. Letting blacks have full rights in the church probably would have destroyed it. It wasn't the correct thing to do, but most people in those times were racist. The church was just following the norm of society. It doesn't make it ok, but I can see why it would be beneficial for the church at the time to do it.

The biggest criticism I have against the church is its injection into politics. A lot of the church's actions with Prop 8 really made me mad. I don't think the church has any business legislating how people who aren't members of the church have to live. They can forbid homosexuality in the church if they want, but that doesn't give them the right to pass their beliefs into law.

[–]iamplastic 5 points6 points ago*

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Ironically, isn't that what the church claims satan wanted to do?... force everyone to be good by force and have no free agency. Have you ever noticed this contradiction before?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago*

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Edit: Oops I thought I was responding to a different post.

Yes, the hypocrisy of the church putting its beliefs into law doesn't escape me and it's not the only example of hypocrisy in the church.

[–]iowan 8 points9 points ago

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I'm an atheist lesbian. I requested a Book of Mormon after Prop 8 passed so I could figure out why the Mormons were so anti-gay. I thought they would just mail it, but that's not the case. Anyway, a pair of Mormons delivered it. My Christian wife asked them religious questions. I gave them lemon bars as they looked through our wedding album. Now every couple weeks a pair of them stops by. Unlike a lot of Christians I've met, all the Mormons I've talked to have been both nice and respectful. When I see any of the ones I've spoken to they ask how I am and how my wife is. Last week I was heading up a hill downtown and six or eight of them were coming down and half of them greeted me by name. On the one hand I feel bad for them (as a kid I used to sell newspaper subscriptions door to door). On the other hand I am extremely angry at them because basically I think they go around and prey on people who are in very low points in their lives who aren't really mentally competent to make a decision about religion. So I'm conflicted about them. Anyway, I like having discussions with them (though I suppose it is only slightly more likely that some of my reason will rub off on them than their religion will rub off on me... I can dream). I feel as though it is a victory when they come in and eat my gay lemon bars. If you had to make a generalization about what a pair of Mormons far from home would be lured in by, what would it be? Thus far I've given them ice water in the summer, hot herbal tea in the winter, and the occasional baked good.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago*

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For the most part, Mormons are pretty nice people. There are more than enough wackjobs but I am glad your experience has been good.

Any food and we are there (I say we, but I am talking about missionaries. I am obviously not a missionary and now an athesit). In my mission there was a rule that said we couldn't accept food from people and it made me really sad. It was for health reasons though. I was in a 3rd world country without running water and too many missionaries were getting seriously ill with tape worms, amoebas etc. I followed the rule and I still got tape worms and parasites.

When you said lemon bar my mouth began to water. I love those. Some days they may not want food or drink because practically ever single house we go to, they offer. You can imagine after drinking 40 glasses of lemonade in one day, the lemonade offered in the 41st house doesn't seem so appetizing.

Another way is to get them to help you with some odd job. Pulling some weeds. Mowing the lawn. Painting something. Putting together a computer desk. Whatever. They are always more than happy to do some service. They are actually required to do at least 4 hours of service a week.

You really don't need an excuse though to get them to your house. Missionaries are pretty excited to visit anyone who seems interested in what they are saying. They also aren't stupid though. If you act interested but aren't progressing (going through the different lessons and making commitments) then they are probably going to drop you.

I met a lot of people who were really nice but just wanted to talk or were just listening and acting interested to be nice. After a few times we could tell they weren't progression towards getting baptized so we decided not to visit them anymore and waste our time.

Missionaries are on god's time so we aren't supposed to waste it by just chatting with people. We are supposed to be finding those who are ready to hear the message and join the church. The others we are supposed to "plant the seed" and leave for someone else to come by and hopefully by that time they will be ready.

Your dream of rubbing off on them is probably just that, a dream. They are in their least susceptible moment in life. They live, eat, sleep, and drink the religion 24/7 for those 2 years. There is no time in my life that I believed more in the church or felt closer to "god."

[–]Suppafly 0 points1 point ago

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give them a nice lesbian show

[–]mkdwolf 4 points5 points ago

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Why and how did you become an Atheist?

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points ago*

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It came basically after some prayers that I thought were answered but weren't really. I realized that the feelings were better explained as my brain releasing and responding to hormones and had nothing to do with God. I could get those same feelings from music, certain situations, or even drugs. Situations that weren't religious in any way or even against what religion taught. I started to realize that a lot of things didn't really make sense and that there were much more rational and logical explanations.

[–]sg42 3 points4 points ago

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Is your family still very religious? Have you come out to them as an Atheist? I ask because both of my parents are ordained, and they have now raised four atheist sons. They usually do a good job of pretending like it doesn't bother them but I was startling that the first question I got when I told them of my first serious girlfriend was "Is she an atheist like you?".

Also, do you have any doubt that if you were born in Saudi Arabia you would be Muslim, or if in India you would be Hindu? I ask this question to so many Christians and they say they would have found Jesus and I'm just flabbergasted.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago*

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All my family, even extended family, is very religious. The only person who isn't is one of my brothers. Most of my friends are very religious as well. I live in Utah if that is any clue.

They were pretty good about it. I know it makes my parents sad, especially my mom but they haven't disowned me or anything. They try to get me to come back and have hope that I will come back to the church, but they aren't too pushy about it. My mom tells me about things she learned in church or stories she read that made her think about me. My parents both volunteer as workers inside the Mormon temple.

They really aren't too bad. I have a cool family. Maybe my brother leaving the church before me set them up better. He isn't an atheist, he just is what they call "inactive."

I think only one of my grandparents knows. My grandpa gives me a hard time about it and jokes around with me half joking half serious about the church but he is pretty cool too. My grandma (other side) I don't think knows and I have no desire to tell her.

Some of my friends know and they are cool about it. Some are interested and ask me questions. Some just leave it alone and don't bring it up.

If I were born in some other part of the world I have no doubt that I would have been raised as whatever religion my parents were. Even here in the U.S. if my parents were Muslim. Would I still have become an atheist later on in life? I don't really know. There isn't a way I could really answer that without it actually happening.

[–]jenngwynne 2 points3 points ago

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Is it true you were not allowed to contact your family or any friends outside of your site church members during your 2 year mission, except your mother on Mother's day?

Do you see this as a form of brainwashing?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago*

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Not quite true. You were allowed one day a week to write letters to anyone you wanted. On the same day you also got mail.

In my mission we could go to an internet cafe once every 2 weeks and write emails but those emails were limited to only immediate family members. We weren't supposed to email friends. We had to just write letters to them.

In every mission it is different with respect to email. We often didn't have easy access to computers being in mountain villages in Guatemala. Other places let you send emails every week.

As for phone calls, no we couldn't make any phone calls to families or friends. We were allowed on Christmas and Mothers day to call our family. We were only supposed to talk to immediate family on those days and to make the call around an hour.

I guess you could see it as a way of brainwashing. The explanation or reasoning for this is that they want you focused on the work and not thinking about home. They want you to forget about what is happening back home and to bury yourself in the work. They say that it is only for 2 years and you are expected to put your life completely on hold and give yourself 100% to the lord. You don't go to school, you don't date, etc.

You also can't read books that aren't church books, you can't watch tv or watch movies. Really as few influences from the outside world as possible during the 2 years.

[–]SirKeyboardCommando 2 points3 points ago

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Did two years of little contact with the outside world actually help you become a lot more focused on the missionary work?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago*

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I would say it did. I am not the type of person to get homesick so I don't really know if I could answer for everyone else. I could easily go months without ever talking to my family. When I lived and worked in Brazil on my own I had no rules saying I couldn't call home, but I still rarely ever called. I sometimes would send an email but not often.

I think it actually does work though to keep the missionaries focused. Once you get into it, you are always so busy or tired you don't really have time anyway to think about what is going on back home. If you started to feel homesick you would just guilt yourself into putting into the back of your mind and focusing even more. Without the constant reminders of the news, or calling home, you really didn't think about it that much.

Family members and friends are also encouraged to write letters to support and encourage them to stay focused on the work. They aren't supposed to write about the gossip, who is dating who, politics back home, etc. I know some families where a pet died, or a distant relative and they didn't say anything as to not distract the missionary. Another family the parents got a divorce but didn't tell him until much later.

I don't think it's right, but like I said, I can understand why they would do it that way.

[–]SirKeyboardCommando 1 point2 points ago

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Holy crap... Come back two years later and find out your parents are divorced.

Is there a way for really homesick people to give up and come home? Are you stuck there wether you want out or not? Have you ever heard of people running away?

Thanks for your answers. This is a really interesting AMA

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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Well, they ended up telling him while he was still on his mission, but during the whole separation etc. they just pretended everything was fine not to worry him. After little while after the divorce the finally wrote him and told him. He took it pretty hard for awhile.

Yes, there have been people who run away. Mostly from the MTC which is the training center in Provo, Utah. There are a few who ran away while in there.

If you absolutely don't want to be there, then yes you can request to be sent home and they will send you home. Some people have mental disorders, severe depression, etc. and they do get sent home.

Actually going in the first place is an option. You aren't required to go, but it is expected of you. You might have a hard time getting a date too since many girls will only date returned missionaries.

[–]DoctorFaustus 1 point2 points ago

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I can't imagine two years without knowing what's going on in the world. No news? I would feel like an irresponsible citizen. Did anything big happen while you were gone that you were surprised to hear about when you got back?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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You hear about some basic news just from other people you talk to. You don't really feel irresponsible since you feel it is your duty to focus on the work and nothing else.

While I was on my mission we invaded Iraq. The space shuttle Columbia blew up. I heard about these things though from others while I was still there. I can't remember anything specific that I had no clue about and was amazed when I got back, but I am sure there were quite a few things I missed.

When I did get back I went to the video store and rented a bunch of the movies I had missed.

[–]kickme444 3 points4 points ago

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Do you have any issues with your community (utah) and your religious beliefs? I ask because I myself was raised mormon but am also an atheist (never went on a mission) and my family is having a real rough time justifying staying in california because of the school system here. My family happens to live in utah (kaysville area) and we are spending this year thinking about moving there next year. One of our big concerns is being a family of athiests in a largely mormon community. Thoughts?

Also, did it frighten you the first time you went through the temple? The whole sign of the nail thing seems pretty freaky, and the room where you are close to god or something.

[–]DoctorFaustus 2 points3 points ago*

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not the OP, but I could give you a bit of insight on Utah. My parents moved to Salt Lake 3 years ago and I've stayed in Minneapolis for school. They're only-go-to-church-on-christmas catholics and moderate republicans (slowly turning socially liberal, thanks to myself). I'm an atheist, and I ask them a lot about the Mormon presence out there. It really seems that in the city (can't speak much of the rest of the state, sorry) the non-mormons actually have a very big presence... I think it comes from being sick of the mormons taking over their city--they kind of backlash and it makes for a more defined community of non-mormons. There's tons of things to do, cool bars, farmer's markets, etc. It's funny, every car you see either has a jesus fish or a bunch of hippie/anti bush bumperstickers.

So yeah, my parents really love it out there and I always find fun stuff when I go and visit (skiing is huge, obviously). I think as long as you don't pay attention to the mormon community, you'll probably be safe.

(sorry if this is kind of rambling, I'm pretty high right now)

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago*

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Yes, the first time through the temple is a little weird. I don't know about frightening but you literally have no idea what it's going to be like beforehand and it is nothing like I expected.

I don't have many issues in my community, but these are people that have known me and my family since I was born. Most of my neighbors are like second families. The 1st counselor in the Stake Presidency is my next door neighbor. He used to be my bishop. They of course come over to visit me and see how I am. I actually have a calling. I do the website for the young single adult group that makes up about 17 stakes here in the salt lake valley. They don't really push that much though. They haven't shunned me anything like that. They are all pretty cool people.

I really can't say how your family would be. Moving into a new neighborhood is completely different. Of course everyone is going to come visit you when you first move in and find out if you are members or not. When they find out you are atheists they are probably going to pre-judge you. With me they already know I am a good guy but with another atheists they would probably be hesitant. Of course they will also probably send some people from the ward to go visit your family.

For the most part, people are generally nice. I think if you are good neighbors and are friendly you won't have many problems. There are the fanatics that won't talk to or let their kids play with anyone who isn't a member, but that isn't the majority. This can be hard on kids though when other kids are told by their parents not to play with them. I know several nonmember friends that have talked to me about how hard it is to grow up in Utah and not be a member.

It is kind of luck of the draw. Do you end up living near the cool Mormons that are nice people and pretty tolerant or do you end up with the crazies that think you are a devil worshiper?

You might even be better off just saying you are inactive members instead of atheist but that is a choice you have to make. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable misleading people by saying I was just inactive.

As DoctorFaustus says, the city (Salt Lake City) is not very Mormon. Kaysville is a bit different but I have never lived there so I can't tell you for sure how it is.

Long story short. For the most part, people are really nice and you should be fine.

[–]pubicenemy 0 points1 point ago

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I am a returned missionary turned agnostic/atheist. I grew up in Kaysville. I would have a real rough time moving back.

[–]kickme444 0 points1 point ago

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can you ellaborate a bit on why? I'm very curious.

[–]pubicenemy 0 points1 point ago

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It's a small town that has a very large, even by Utah standards, Mormon population percentage. It would be difficult as non-mormon, especially as an atheist, to be integrated into the community there. So much of the community there revolves around church activity, to not be mormon is to be a pariah, generally speaking. In high school everyone knows who the non-mormon kids are. Release time seminary makes that easy.

There are much more progressive communities in Utah, especially in and around SLC. I think Utah gets a bad rap in general but living in Kaysville vs Salt Lake area could make a world of difference.

[–]tommy255 2 points3 points ago

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As a devout Mormon, I appreciate your candor about your experiences and current worldview, dioxide. You've been very fair-minded in the answers to the questions here. I applaud that.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

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Thank you. Like I said, I don't have a hatred or anything towards the church. I have some criticisms but those have nothing to do with why I left the church so I don't have any ill feelings towards the church. I am also quick to correct misconceptions or rumors about the church and recognize the good things it does.

I wanted to post this just to answer questions for people who were curious but maybe too afraid to ask Mormon friends. I didn't want it to turn into religion bashing and I am glad it turned out how it did.

[–]georgecurious 2 points3 points ago

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How effective is the missionary work? You guys get lots of converts? What are the strategies you guys use (just talking? gifts and aid + talking? something else)?

Were you glad the missionary work was over? Were you glad you did it?

When you're out proselytizing do you run into counter-proselytizers from other faiths, or is it more like you stake your territory and people mostly stay out of each other's way?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago*

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Sorry this is long but you asked a lot of questions...

It really depends on the area. I served in Guatemala and it was really successful. My brother served in Spain and had very little success. Latin America is really booming right now. Europe not so much.

We would usually try for 2 or 3 baptisms a month per companionship (you are always with at least 1 other person). The entire mission would get over 100 people a month. In Spain they were lucky with a few people a year. The thing is that a lot of those who are baptized go to church for a few weeks or months but then stop going.

The strategies are a lot like being a salesman. They teach you how to use your speech to be convincing. You ask open ended questions. You ask direct questions like "will you" not "would you like to." You mimic people, repeat what they say back to them, etc. Many missionaries actually go on to sales jobs after their mission. There is a security alarm company that basically only hires returned missionaries to do door to door sales because the skills transfer over directly.

We don't give any gifts except for free copies of church books. We do a lot service though. We build houses, paint houses, work fields, whatever people need help with. I was in Guatemala so I did a lot of working on corn fields, hauling water from the well, building little shacks for houses, chopping wood to cook, etc.

Mostly we just talk. There are 6 discussions to teach the basics of the church before you are baptized. We try to get them to set a baptism date and promise to be baptized by the 3rd discussion. These are lessons that we have studied. Before you actually had to memorize word for word these lessons like a script, but now they have changed to a new system and you have to touch certain topics but you can pick any order and use your own words.

Many days I was glad to be done. I would often be so tired I would skip dinner and just go to bed. We had to wakeup at 6:30 everyday and then shower fast and eat. The rest of the morning till around 9:30 was time to study. We left at 9:30 and stayed out until 9:30 at night. We did get a lunch in the afternoon but dinner wasn't until 9:30 when we got home.

I am glad I did it. Even though I don't believe the things I taught now. It was an experience I wouldn't trade for anything. I was able to visit a foreign country, learn a 2nd language, learn skills like chopping wood, planting and harvesting corn, etc., meet amazing people, see how people live in other parts of the world. I was in mountain villages with indigenous people in very 3rd world conditions (no running water, cooking with wood stoves etc). It was an eye opener. I have now gone on to study Latin American Studies, and Linguistics. I learned Portuguese as well and spent awhile living and working in Brazil. The experience has had a big effect on my life.

We would sometimes run into other people who were out also proselytizing. There were no territories staked out. We would actually go through every single house in the town/village and when we finished we would start over again and revisit the same places again.

We did often run into pastors etc. of other religions. We would knock on a door and it turns out to be the pastor. Sometimes they were cool and we had good discussions. Sometimes they just wanted to argue. We would also get people who wanted to argue from other religions. Every time I met a 7th day adventists, they would ask me what the 4th commandment was and then start arguing about which day was the sabbath day. Jehova's Witnesses would also like to pull out their bible and start quoting verses.

The thing is that I know the bible very well. I can bible bash with the best of them and can quote verses till the cows come home. I actually had a list of bible verses to strike down most of the common arguments brought forth by other religions against us.

Usually when someone just wanted to argue we would move on and not waste our time with them. We weren't there to annoy people or fight. We really only wanted people who were actually interested. We would rather have someone tell us they weren't interested than waste our time with people who pretended to be interested just to be nice.

Sometimes though I would sit and argue with people. I love to debate and I would like to think I am pretty good at it. So I would sometimes have fun just ripping their arguments apart using the bible.

[–]rsynnott 2 points3 points ago

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Probably not surprising they didn't do so well in Spain; religion there is in serious decline post-Franco (he more or less mandated it, so there's a backlash).

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago*

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Well Franco was very Catholic and declared it the official religion. Catholicism is also a very strong cultural thing in Spain so even those who don't go to church still consider themselves very Catholic and would never convert even if they don't believe in the teachings of the Catholic church.

It goes back a long ways to the idea of "Limpieza de sangre" or pure blood. You weren't a real Spaniard unless you were a Christian. It's part of their national identity still.

With younger generations it is in decline even those who don't think of themselves as catholic for cultural reasons. You are right, there is more an anti-religion sentiment throughout Spain and most of Europe.

So yeah, between the older generation that are Catholic to death, and the younger generation who hate all religion, it's pretty hard to convert anyone.

[–]rsynnott 4 points5 points ago

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I can't help thinking that this is a very good thing. We've had a similar effect in Ireland. We were also a Catholic-dominated/oppressed country until pretty recently; contraception and homosexuality were illegal until the end of the 80s, heavy censorship until early 80s, female civil servants had to resign after marriage until the 70s, the church sabotaged the first serious attempt at state-funded healthcare in the 50s, the state voluntarily turned large parts of the social welfare and mental health system over to the church with disastrous consequences, and this was only rectified in the 90s, and so on.

And now, in 2009, religious observance has fallen through the floor, the church has to import priests to ensure a supply, and religion is out of politics. It's in many ways fascinating how this happens; we've gone from one of the most religious states in Europe to a middle-of-the-road secular state in a few decades.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago*

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Yeah Latin America is interesting. It was also Catholic dominated/oppressed but then they gained total control and a lot of the church turned into this mixed indigenous/catholic religion where they would have catholic saints and also figures from indigenous mythology in the same cathedral.

Recently the Catholic church has been losing a lot of ground in Latin America but it isn't agnosticism or atheism that is spreading like in Europe. In Latin America evangelical churches are growing like crazy. The Assembly of God and other pentecostal churches are everywhere. The Mormon church is also growing very fast in Latin America. People are still very religious, they just aren't catholic. The catholic church has been naming new saints that are from Latin American countries etc to try and hold on to membership but they are losing the battle.

[–]LowKey7 1 point2 points ago

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The mormon church is NOT growing fast in Latin America. It's all smoke an mirrors. In Chile for example, the LDS church claims to have over 500,000 members. BUt the census in Chile requires you to self-identify with your religious affiliation, and there are actually only a little over 100,000 memebers. About five years ago an apostle was sent town to re-do the entire country combining three stakes into one, combining 4 wards into one etc etc etc.

I was a missinary in argentina in the early 80s almost 30 years ago. I recently looked up on lds.org a couple of the cities I was in. Both of them had the same 2 branches that they had back in 1981.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago*

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Check out here the second list of numbers for the top 10 countries with the most membership increases. Notice that 8 out of 10 of those countries are in Latin America.

The 554,749 members of chile are just the members they have on record. It doesn't mean active members. A lot of those people went to church for 2 weeks after they were baptized and then never again. They are counted in the church's numbers because they are considered members. Even if the person doesn't consider themselves a member, they are a member until they get their name taken off the records. I am even still counted as a member. I think your 100,000 number is a bit low but I would have to find a source for that.

From that link at the top you can see the fastest growing areas recently are in Africa, but Latin America is also growing fast with a ton of people being baptized. It used to be faster growth than Africa, but that has recently changed. There are more people being baptized in Latin America but the growth rate isn't as high as in Africa.

Here you can check out the stats on Chile (scroll down a bit). You can see that in 2004 the unit growth rate went waay down. That is when they combined all the wards. The unit growth is a more accurate number because they have to have active members to create more units, not just people with their names in the records.

Compare that to a place like Brazil which has a had both membership growth and unit growth. Or where I served in Guatemala. Or Mexico which has seen a lot of growth.

Chile and Argentina are very different countries when it comes to Latin America. They don't really fit in with the rest culturally. They are much more European like.

edit: It looks like on that Chile link from cumorah.com they have an approx active members and it says

Approx. Active Members: 109748

So your 100,00 is pretty accurate.

[–]georgecurious 0 points1 point ago

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Thanks for the answers. I know a lot of mormons but haven't really gotten a sense for what the mission work is like, now I do.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago*

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If you want I will give you a sample of the average day.

6:30 = Wakeup, take a shower

7:00-9:00 = Part of this time is language study for those who learn a foreign language. Part is individual study, and part is study with your companion. We study the lessons we teach other people. We study the scriptures (Bible, Book of Mormon, etc.), and other religious books.

9:00-9:30 = Plan what you are going to do for the day. Look over appointments, figure out with part of town you are going to hit. Try to be efficient as possible so you aren't in one place but then have to walk 2 hours to get an appointment.

9:30-1:00 = If we have appointments we go to those and teach the lessons. Most of the time the people aren't there. We show up at the house for a return appointment and they are not home, or they are home but don't answer the door. A lot of times kids will answer the door and say "My dad said that he isn't home". We would either leave or if we needed a laugh ask "Ask your dad when he will be home." and watch the kid run to the back to ask his dad. Sometimes we would see just a pair of legs through the window, the person would be hiding on the floor underneath the window thinking we couldn't see them.

During the time we don't have any appointments we just knock on doors or talk to people in the street. We also ask the people we talk to if they need help with anything. If it's something we can do then like chopping some wood or hauling water, we help. If not we make an appointment and come back to paint their house or dig their field.

1:00-2:00 = lunch. We would either make our own lunch using the gas camp stove we had in our kitchen, or we would pay a member of the church who would make lunch for us.

2:00-9:30 = Same thing as before lunch. Appointments, talking to people etc.

9:30-10:30 = Eat dinner and get ready for bed.

10:30 = Lights out.

We did this 6 days a week rain or shine, on christmas day, etc. No breaks.

1 day a week we had a half day free where we would clean the apartment, do laundry, buy groceries, write letters, read the mail, etc. If we got all that done and had some extra time we would play some soccer or basketball. At 4:00 I think it was, we would have to go back out to work.

During the week we would also have meetings where we would meet with other missionaries that made up our district or zone. There would be other missionaries who were district or zone leaders and would be in charge of those missionaries in their areas.

[–]georgecurious 2 points3 points ago

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This is pretty interesting. The honest truth is that despite knowing lots of mormons professionally I've been afraid to ask them questions about this stuff.

It's not so much "I'm afraid they'll try and convert me" as "I'm afraid they'll think I'm more interested in their religion than I am, then got a little disappointed when they find out I'm not."

I understand them a bit better now, thanks.

One more question: how do destinations get picked for missionaries? Like how did you wind up in Latin America and other people wind up in Borneo (or some other tropical paradise)? What's the deal?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago*

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Yeah, there is a strong possibility that if you did ask them questions they would take it as interest in the church.

The selection process is supposedly by "god." You have to fill out a ton of paperwork with medical history, grades in school, special awards you won, skills, etc. It is a lot like a giant job application. You also have to send in a picture.

Before you can send the papers in, you also have to have an interview with both the Bishop (leader of your local church group called a ward) and the Stake President (leader of the local region containing about 7 wards or so which make up a stake). They would ask you questions about your worthiness like if you believe and if you follow the commandments. If you are worthy etc. If you have done drugs, had sex, things like that, you would have to either repent and wait a little while, or you might not be able to go at all depending on how bad it was. If they sign off then they send the papers to the church headquarters in Salt Lake City, Utah.

Then the leaders of the church in Salt Lake City go through your application and by the "influence of god" pick your assignment from a list of places that need people for the time you would be leaving. They take health problems into consideration, so if you have problems walking they might send you to a place where the missionaries go everywhere by car. In my mission it was all walking, and most of that was more like hiking because we were in the mountains on little trails in a 3rd world country and in small towns and villages.

If you are from a foreign country, they usually try to keep you in your home country, just in a different area than you live in. Some people though do get to leave the country. If you are from the U.S. you have a good chance of staying here in the U.S. but you also have a good chance of going pretty much anywhere else in the world.

[–]Measure76 2 points3 points ago

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Dioxide... what caused you to go atheist?

I've been talking to you on another thread, and so I'll come out now and mention that I am a RM atheist myself, in my case, it took me about 10 years after my mission to become atheist.

In your case, what was the path that lead you to atheism? Mine is here.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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I somewhat answered this already a couple of places in this post. I don't want to go into the details but I was going through a hard time in my life and had some prayers that I was sure I had received an answer to but things turned out differently than my answer. Because of the hard times I took a step back and assessed my life, religion, etc. and that is when I realized that there were much better ways to explain things than God.

[–]chois 0 points1 point ago

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I have about the same story as you Measure76. It's nice to see others who have gone through the same research and awakening that I recently went through.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago*

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What kind of music do you listen to? Did your music taste before and after being a Mormon at all?

As an atheist now, what do you value more then anything else?

Whatcha up to lately?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago*

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During the mission you could only listen to church songs or classical music. We had cds of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir which is actually a pretty famous choir. The music is mostly boring old church stuff though. We also had some cds of contemporary Mormon groups. Mostly I listened to classical music.

I actually listened to a lot of classical music before the mission and during the mission. I play the cello and enjoy it. I also play the acoustic and classical guitar.

My musical taste hasn't really changed from before and after. I listen to pretty much everything except country. I like old stuff like Simon and Garfunkel, Beatles, Strawberry Alarm Clock. I like a lot of 80s music like B-52s, Tears for Fears, Depeche Mode, REM. I like a lot of alternative rock. I like Panic at the disco, plain white ts, Greenday, Franz Ferdinand, Offspring, Tool, Kings of Leon, Sublime, Barenaked Ladies. The list goes on and on.

My music taste is pretty broad. I like a lot of indie stuff but I don't really listen to it that much. I mostly just listen to the radio and whatever is playing. I don't listen too much techo, electronic, house, etc. and I don't listen to a lot of rap and hip hop but I do like a lot of it.

What do I value more than anything else? Good question. Knowledge. I love to learn new things. Maybe friendship or relationships. Just living life and being happy? I don't need religion to give my life purpose. I treat other people how I want to be treated and I try to be a nice person to everyone. I do what makes me happy.

What am I up to lately? Really nothing exciting. Just getting ready to finish school this semester. I am trying to get a job as a foreign service officer in the U.S. Department of State. I work now as a web developer and also do in home tech repair for a small company.

[–]userd 2 points3 points ago

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Since you became an athiest, have you started to use swear words? Why/why not?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago*

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Interesting question...

My answer is sort of.

I swear sometimes but really only when it adds something to what I am saying. I have always thought, and still think, that saying fuck every other word is retarded and childish. I hate when someone has to resort to swear words in order to win an argument. I have mentioned that I like to debate (I never was on a debate team, I just like to argue) and I feel that swearing weakens a person's point.

Having said that, I am not in any way offended by swearing. I think it certainly has its place. Even before I became an atheist, I wasn't offended by swearing and thought that its use was essential in certain books and movies as a tool.

The only thing that has really changed is that I never swore before and now I do swear on occasion.

[–]windowpane 1 point2 points ago

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I've heard there's a secret handshake to get into heaven. Is this true?

(I'm not trolling, just curious.)

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago*

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Basically.

When you go through the Mormon temple ceremony they perform various secret signs and there are secret names that correspond to those signs. You also have your own personal secret name. In the temple you approach a veil that has a temple worker on the other side (this is what my parents do) and has a hole to put your arm through (it has some other holes and designs too that mean different things). You have to give them the secrets handshakes/signs and basically there is a script where they ask you questions and you have to answer giving them the secret names for the signs. It all has to be word for word.

The first time you go through the temple you are doing the ceremony for yourself and you make a bunch of covenants with God. You also get a new name that you are never supposed to tell anyone.

Every time you go to the temple after that you are doing the ceremony as a proxy on behalf of the people who have died without doing it. You use their secret name in that case (they tell you the secret name at the first). The other secret names that correspond to the signs/handshakes never change.

This is all supposed to represent what happens when you get to heaven. You will arrive at a veil and have to recite the script giving the secret signs/handshakes and names.

This part at the veil is only the very last part of the ceremony. The rest of it you watch a video that talks about the creation and adam and eve. Throughout they show you the signs and give you the names, you make certain promises to god, and you put on sashes, robes, hats, etc over top the white shirt and pants you already wearing. There is no weird nudity or sexual stuff going on.

This is called the endowment ceremony and is only one of the things they do in temples. They also do baptisms by proxy on behalf of the dead, they do sealings to seal together married couples, and families, etc.

There are videos on the internet of the whole endowment ceremony I think. I have never looked for them, but I am sure they exist. That will show you all the secret signs/handshakes etc.

[–]windowpane 1 point2 points ago

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Wow. That was absolutely fascinating. I never really believed the handshake thing until now. Thank you for sharing your experience!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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It's true but it isn't something people ever talk about. You swear an oath not to talk about it during the ceremony.

It is one of the most sacred things that exist in the church. They don't feel that it is super secret, more that it is sacred and something you shouldn't share with other people. Parents don't even discuss it with their kids. You literally have no idea what happens until you do it the first time for yourself. It is kinda weird the first time.

[–]MeanMouthMike 0 points1 point ago

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Is the Kaysville Cross still there? I heard it was torn down. Not sure if that's just a rumor.

[–]clarkismyname 0 points1 point ago

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Hey Brotha,

nice to see more of us out there.

I'm a Exmo- RM, born and raised, but never able to accept. fighting to bring my wife and children along on the journey from fantasy to reality. It is a long and sometimes lonely path when all your family is steeped in the traditions and teachings of the church. My kids are coming around, asking logical questions and calling out inconsistencies, but the wife, she needs the dogma to face the world, so the going is slow.

I enjoyed your candor below.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago*

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It was about 2 years after my mission. I stopped reading the scriptures after I decided to be an atheist and had decided to stop going to church. Up until then I was still reading the scriptures quite a bit.

Why? I guess since I had left the church there was no point in reading the scriptures anymore. I had read them all (including the bible) cover to cover many times and I knew them inside and out. There was no point to keep reading what I now consider to be a fairy tale. It has some good stories, and teaches some great things, but I don't think it is the word of God in any way.

[–]QuindarColt 0 points1 point ago

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Do Mormons have any choice as far as going on a mission? Can they delay it so it doesn't interrupt college? How does the church decide (I'm assuming it's where "God needs you to go") where to send you, and how do they tell you? Are missions organized by a central group, or is done ward by ward? Lastly, one of my best friends is mormon and is set to go on a mission next year. I don't want him to go, should I say anything, or do you think it was a valuable experience?

[–]Sophocles 0 points1 point ago*

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It is completely voluntary, but there is strong cultural pressure for young men to serve. Until the 1970s, it was considered more of an option, but then President Spencer Kimball announced that all young men are expected to serve missions. Young women were taught that they should only marry returned missionaries. If you choose not to go, it's possible that you could suffer real social repercussions, but mostly they want to foster the belief that you'll be shunned and ostracized, even if this doesn't always play out in fact. In reality, even if you choose not to serve a mission, if you go on to become a wealthy dentist or businessman, they will promote you as high as you want to go, and no one will care that you were never a missionary.

You have no control over where you are sent. The calls are decided in the church office building in Salt Lake City and are based on the needs of the missions. If the Indianapolis mission tells them that they need more Korean speaking missionaries, a couple of apps from the next batch will be assigned to Indianapolis Korean-speaking.

There are some exceptions. They ask on the application if you have family connections to any foreign countries or if you are already fluent in any foreign languages. Sometimes people get assignments based on this info, but not always. And if you are a high profile Mormon, like a relative of Mormon royalty or a BYU football player, they will almost always assign you someplace cool or exotic so it sounds more impressive whenever it's mentioned in the media. They tell you where you are going in writing, a few weeks after you submit your application.

The entire church is organized by the church headquarters in Salt Lake, and that includes missions. Every square inch of the earth is assigned to a Mormon ward or branch, a Mormon mission, and a Mormon temple district. All these borders coincide with one another, i.e., a Mormon mission will contain a discrete number of wards. The mission decides how its missionaries are distributed among those wards, however. Some missions assign multiple sets of missionaries per ward, and others assign one pair of missionaries over several wards. It just depends on the demographics.

You can delay your mission for college or something if you want, but again, it is highly discouraged. It probably is a valuable experience on balance, but there are far better things you can do with two years than knocking doors hawking your religious beliefs. It all depends on what the missionary puts into it. Some develop an appreciation for another culture and really make the most of it, but sadly, most do not.

[–]QuindarColt 0 points1 point ago

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Thanks for the reply. I'll be sure to talk to my friend about his feelings about going on a mission. And by talk, I mean discourage him from going because he would be doing it for the wrong reasons. Do you mind me asking where you were sent?

[–]Sophocles 0 points1 point ago

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I went to Provo, Utah--Spanish speaking. Kind of a crazy mission, right there in the heart of Mormonism, the missionaries were treated like rock stars. But I also got to learn a foreign language and got to know people from almost every country in Latin America.

Still, knowing what I know now, I never would have done it--even if I were still a believing Mormon.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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What took you so long?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago

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What took me so long to become an atheist? My life situation. Being Mormon where I live is the norm. Most people are Mormon, all my friends and family are Mormon. I never had any teachers, relatives, anyone with an opposing view. The few people that did have opposing views, I just didn't get how they could not believe in God. It didn't seem possible to me. I was also a very good debater and could tear apart most attempts of people who questioned my belief. You don't have to be right to win a debate. You just have to be a better debater.

Many people turn to religion when they go through hard times in life. It took hard times in my life to make me take assessment and turn away from religion. If it weren't for those hard times, if everything in my life had just continued to go according to plan I would still be a Mormon today.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

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Thanks for answering. I agree- many do turn to religion during the hard times just because there's a group of people willing to support you and because of the idea that there's hope.