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[–]bifftradwell 7 points8 points ago

Star San is an acid sold in highly concentrated form, which is why a 1:500 mixing ratio is sufficient to sanitize a bottle.

1) Avoid contact with the concentrate. Once mixed, prolonged exposure will suck all the oils out of your skin and kill the top layer of live cells. It's not painful, but the itching and peeling can be uncomfortable, and I suspect repeated prolonged exposures can lead to Bad Things happening, like maybe your hands will explode.

2) I never scrub my bottles unless I see visible goop inside that I can't remove chemically. I also don't StarSan them - just throw them in the dishwasher, no soap, on the sani-rinse setting, which gets them to 168F and holds them there for at least 10 minutes. This kills the pathogen.

[–]jubydoo 0 points1 point ago

Your hands wouldn't explode, but you would keep doing repeated damage to the top layer of cells that would likely lead to chafing, cracking, possibly bleeding, potential infection, and scarring.

[–]bifftradwell 3 points4 points ago

Yeah, there's a slight chance I may have exaggerated for comic effect :)

[–]lightswitch05 0 points1 point ago

you forgot death from the infection!

[–]scootunit 0 points1 point ago

I can tell you that star san is benign compared to say wet concrete. I would not bathe in it but a quick rinse in a properly diluted mixture will sanitize your hands. just don't keep them coated in it for long periods.

[–]extra_pickles 6 points7 points ago*

1) I can only talk about Star San here - but I don't think it is an irritant. I soak my hands in it in an effort to sanitize my contact w/ the items I am sanitizing.

2) Star San is a rinse free contact sanitizer. Leaving your bottles in it longer than the required time (30s) has no benefit. Rinsing it off is a waste of time, and to some extend defeats the purpose of sanitization (unless you can confirm the water being used is w/o any bacteria).

If the bottles are clean, use star san as directed on the package. If they aren't wash them with something, then use star san. I've never once scrubbed the inside of a bottle! (Also, if their is shit stuck in their get a bottle jet attachment for your sink...about 15$ and will blast almost anything off of the insides)

A good investment may be a bottle washer (sulphiter) - you can throw 200-300ml of star san in one and sanitize your whole set. (Assuming the foam doesn't go crazy! I've never actually put starsan in a sulphiter before as I normally keg everything)

P.S. If you do get some stubborn bottles that don't rinse so well, fill them up with a hot brew clean solution - or oxy clean solution and let them soak for an hour - then give them a good shake w/ half the solution still inside. Never use a brush! (too much work - + if they are plastic you may be scratching the insides and creating homes for bacteria)

edit: to clarify what I was referring to above

link to a bottle jet:

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/jet-bottle-washer.html

link to a bottle washer (aka a sulphiter):

http://store.defalcowines.com/cart.php?target=product&product_id=20359&substring=Sulphiter

link to a PBW (aka a brew cleaner / can sub in Oxy if you want)

http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?cPath=178_56_36&products_id=514

[–]puterTDI 1 point2 points ago

I thought contact time on starsan was 2 min?

[–]papercrane 1 point2 points ago

That's Idophor. Starsan works much quicker.

[–]puterTDI 1 point2 points ago

unfortunately, I don't have a bottle in front of me to look at, but this site indicates 5 minutes:

http://www.homebrewers.com/product/6022/Star-San-Sanitizer.html

[–]papercrane 2 points3 points ago

How To Brew says 30 seconds. http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter2-2-3.html

I believe it depends on what you are using it for. Idophor needs 10 minutes according to the manufacture, but that's meant for hospital level sanitation.

[–]puterTDI 0 points1 point ago

interesting. I'll have to look at my container when I get home.

[–]wartornhero 0 points1 point ago

It also depends on the concentration. IIRC it is 10 minutes for 12.5 PPM and 5 minutes for 25 PPM. It tells you how to achieve those concentration levels on the bottle.

[–]puterTDI 0 points1 point ago

cool, Maybe I'll go for using less and soaking longer...save money :)

[–]wartornhero 1 point2 points ago

Yeah I never bothered with using a 25 PPM concentration. my bottle lasted more than a whole year and 13 batches including some with secondaries and bottling.

[–]MarvStage 1 point2 points ago

FDA says 2 min, 5 star says 30 seconds when the FDA isn't listening.

[–]puterTDI 1 point2 points ago

how do we know which is right? :)

[–]scootunit 0 points1 point ago

The point is that star-san kills on contact. The reason for leaving it longer is it is a sanitizer not a cleaner. IF you have seams, cracks or imperfections in the surface or your item to be sanitized, or it is not in fact as clean as you think, there could be a build up of some microscopic bits of organic material shielding potential bad microbiorganisms ( I made up that word) from the effect of the sanitizer. the longer it soaks the better chance it has to come in contact with the bad guys.

[–]puterTDI 0 points1 point ago

fair enough.

I think the word you were looking for is microorganisms :) An organism I believe is inherently biological :)

[–]wartornhero 2 points3 points ago

One last note on this product: Because it is listed as a sanitizer and bactricide by the FDA and EPA, the container must list disposal warnings that are suitable for pesticides. Do not be alarmed, it is less hazardous to your skin than bleach.

There is your answer to the first question.

[–]zegolf 8 points9 points ago

1) I think the warning relates more to the undiluted version of StarSan, rather than the version that you're probably using 99% of the time. I'm sure if you did this on a daily basis, it would probably have an adverse affect on your skin, but if you're only brewing once a week or so, you should be fine.

2) This would probably be ok, but if you're going to soak them, why not soak them in a cleaning agent solution to guarantee they get cleaned out, and then soak them in StarSan? For me, this is the process I use:

  • If a bottle has a label, I soak it in a hot water/oxyclean solution. This solves two problems: The oxyclean practically melts off the glue from the label, and the hot water and cleaner helps to soak off particles and other crap from inside the bottles

  • I then load my dishwasher with a bottle on each prong. This will help to clean them out a bit more.

  • Next I'll store the bottles until they're ready for filling.

  • Finally, I'll put them back into the dishwasher, set a rinse cycle (to clean off the dust) and finish with the sanitize setting.

While this wouldn't work with a dishwasher that lacks a sanitize function, it is a quick and painless way to clean a lot of bottles in a small amount of time.

[–]ianfw617 1 point2 points ago

we have a heated dry setting on our dishwasher, would that be the same thing as sanitize?

[–]TheRealFender 6 points7 points ago

Yes.

From How to Brew:

Dishwashers can be used to sanitize, as opposed to sterilize, most of your brewing equipment, you just need to be careful that you don't warp any plastic items. The steam from the drying cycle will effectively sanitize all surfaces. Bottles and other equipment with narrow openings should be pre-cleaned. Run the equipment through the full wash cycle without using any detergent or rinse agent. Dishwasher Rinse Agents will destroy the head retention on your glassware. If you pour a beer with carbonation and no head, this might be the cause.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter2-2-3.html

[–]zegolf 0 points1 point ago

Don't quote me on this, but I believe things get sanitize at, or around, 165 degrees. If the heated dry on your dishwasher doesn't hit that temperature, you're not going to get true sanitation.

[–]ianfw617 0 points1 point ago

yeah I live in a cheap apartment and while the dishwasher doesn't look too old I don't know that I trust it enough to not fuck up my delicious brew

[–]willdrinkbeerforfood 2 points3 points ago

1) It can contact your skin, it won't kill you. I have noticed my skin does peel a little after extended exposure (I clean my bottles by submerging them in a bucket of starsan and fishing them out after a minute)

2) Yes, this is what I do. This plan starts to fail when you get bottles from other people/live with others, so be careful about that.

[–]travtele844 1 point2 points ago

I'm with zegolf, I believe they are for the undiluted strength.

On brew day I spray my hands and forearms with starsan any time I need to touch anything that should be sanitized and on bottling day I'm often dipping hands and arms into starsan when getting bottles ready and haven't noticed any real ill effects other than a bit of skin dryness.

[–]trendo[S] 1 point2 points ago

Thanks for the responses all. From them it looks like the diluted sanitizers are okay on your skin. And for the most part it looks like I'll stop brush scrubbing the insides of my bottles unless there's a chance that's there's actually crap worth brushing out of there.

[–]frankenbeans 7 points8 points ago

Stop rinsing the star-san off with tap water, you're undoing your sanitation.

[–]bpm2000 0 points1 point ago

Don't fear the foam!

I've never had a problem with star san on my skin. I use it in a spray bottle, and I have had a bit of an issue in the past with it getting almost aerosol because of the spray and the subsequent inhalation can be a bit irritating.

[–]frankenbeans 0 points1 point ago

The only thing I have found to be annoying enough to avoid on bare skin is oxyclean. I believe it strips all the oil off your hands and they feel slippery, then very dry.

[–]TheZooo 1 point2 points ago

star san and similar are acids. it is required by law to have such warnings even though you will be diluting it to levels that are safe enough to touch or even drink, really.

[–]trendo[S] 1 point2 points ago

Yah, that's what I was thinking. Was trying to figure out if it was a real warning or a BS warning. (though I wouldn't want any un-dilluted starsan on me)

[–]extra_pickles 0 points1 point ago

I wouldn't worry about it unless you're spending all day every day using the stuff.

I've gotten concentrate on my hands and never seen any kind of reaction.

For the sake of comparison, more than 20-30s w/ a paint or varnish thinner/stripper on exposed skin can often lead to damage (it'll heat up, and leave a red mark - leave it on and you're going to see much worse). Within 20s I'm def. in "get it off!" mode and at the sink.

Meanwhile I've gotten star san concentrate on my hands and not bothered to wipe it off. It gets rinsed off eventually (through the course of cleaning), but there's no urgency.

[–]rancemo 0 points1 point ago

StarSan PH is around 3. Coca-cola is supposedly 2.5. Therefore it's probably safer to be in contact with Starsan than Coca-cola. I'm not a chemist, so this could be completely false. Anyone ever sanitize a carboy with coke?

[–]jubydoo 0 points1 point ago

You could, though you'd have a sticky, sugary residue left behind that would quickly attract bacteria and mold.

[–]hotrub 0 points1 point ago

No you could not, starsan is an acid anionic sanitizer the soap/surfactant part is critical to is being effective and lacking in Coke.

[–]frankenbeans 0 points1 point ago

IIRC the components of starsan are food grade, so you could ingest diluted starsan and have no issues. I probably wouldn't, but I have no problem with it getting into my beer.

[–]rancemo 0 points1 point ago

Yeah, that was my whole point.

[–]loniousmonk 0 points1 point ago

I don't use gloves, but it might be good practice for a couple reasons. Gloves should have less little nooks and crannies than your hands so should be easier to sanitize. Also I suppose wearing gloves will remind you to not touch your face or scratch your butt and things like that =O

[–]mattlphoto 0 points1 point ago

For a while I was really misusing StarSan, and wasting money doing so.
I would make 5 gallon batches every brew day and every bottling day.
Completely unnecessary. A little goes a long way.
Anyways, one bottling day, i decided the best way to sanitize my bottling bucket and my bottles was to make a full batch of star san and take each individual bottle and dunk them in with my bare hands. For the occasional contact with diluted StarSan, and even with spraying a layer directly onto your skin, you are fine. Soaking your hands and arms in it for 50 12oz bottles is another story. My hands pruned up really bad and were dry for the next 12 hours or so. Still, not a chemical burn or anything, but the skin was pretty sensitive for a while.

[–]goblueM 0 points1 point ago

1) I had a pretty nasty acid burn on my foot this summer from Star San. But I unknowingly spilled some on my sock, then was wading around fishing in waders for 6 hours. Felt like an itch at first, by the time I took my sock off it was too late.

This was undiluted star-san over 6 hours... you don't have to worry about incidental contact, even if it is undiluted and you wash off right away.

2) I never scrub my bottles, I just rinse after using, then straight sanitize. (obviously I check to make sure there's nothing growing in the bottles before sanitizing)

[–]inebriates 1 point2 points ago

One of the Basic Brewing podcasts from a while back had an interview with a guy from Five Star Chemicals on how to properly sanitize with Star San, etc. Here's that link if you're interested.

And they also had a sanitization episode waaaay back in 2005 that might be informative, too. Here's that podcast.