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Apple CEO Tim Cook responds to claims of factory worker mistreatment: ‘We care about every worker in our supply chain' (9to5mac.com)

submitted ago by EatingSteak

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[–]eddie1996 31 points32 points ago

Tim Cook might but the Factory owners don't.

[–]Leprecon 0 points1 point ago

Perfect summary/explanation of what goes on.
Also, devoid of apple bashing. A++, would upvote again.

[–]jglee1236 21 points22 points ago

'We're not gonna do jack shit for 'em, but we care about them.'

[–]combatpicks 1 point2 points ago

"Think Different."

[–]Buhdahl 22 points23 points ago

Put your money where your mouth is.

[–]uhclem 16 points17 points ago

More than just Apple. Foxconn manufactures for

  • Acer Inc. (Taiwan)
  • Amazon.com (United States)[27]
  • Apple Inc. (United States)[28]
  • ASRock (Taiwan)
  • Asus (Taiwan)
  • Barnes & Noble (United States)
  • Cisco (United States)
  • Dell (United States)
  • EVGA Corporation (United States)
  • Hewlett-Packard (United States)[29]
  • Intel (United States)
  • IBM (United States)
  • Lenovo (China)
  • Logitech (Switzerland)
  • Microsoft (United States)
  • MSI (Taiwan)
  • Motorola (United States)
  • Netgear (United States)
  • Nintendo (Japan)
  • Nokia (Finland)[28]
  • Panasonic (Japan)
  • Philips (Netherlands)
  • Samsung (South Korea)[30]
  • Sharp (Japan)
  • Sony (Japan)
  • Sony Ericsson (Japan/Sweden)[31]
  • Toshiba (Japan)
  • Vizio (United States)

[–]heyiquit 3 points4 points ago

Let's boycott all of these brands! None of these companies make anything of use anyway. Right?

[–]dscrd -1 points0 points ago

Yeah! Because boycotts are supposed to be easy!

[–]heyiquit -1 points0 points ago

The point of a boycott is to make things difficult for the manufacturer. There is nothing innate about the very act that says it should be a burden to the consumer.

A boycott is simply a vote cast by the person in the store doing the shopping. If we don't like you're company, we won't buy your product.

[–]EatingSteak[S] -1 points0 points ago

I think the key difference here is that Apple is the only one running their mouths about caring and lowest bidder at the same time.

[–]fotobox 0 points1 point ago

They're also the ones that appear predominantly in stories about Foxconn.

[–]kog 19 points20 points ago

We care about every worker in our supply chain, just not enough to do anything about any problems.

FTFH.

[–]EatingSteak[S] 7 points8 points ago

Well, at least we know the new CEO can still talk out his ass with the best of 'em.

[–]adremeaux 1 point2 points ago

I want to give Cook more time before passing judgment on him. He has already done things in his short tenure that Jobs would have never dreamed about, including the information release on most of their factories as well as the reinstitution of charitable contributions from the company. Maybe it's all just bullshit, but for now I'm hoping it is genuine and that maybe they will begin to change. It would be hard to imagine Cook is anywhere near as selfish or miserable a human being as Jobs was.

[–]EatingSteak[S] 0 points1 point ago

I suppose I have to hand you this one. I'll give him a pass on this one, and look more at the direction than the position of Apple's worker treatment. Still, I thought it was quite smarmy to say that "they care" after a hundred people threatened suicide over horrible working conditions.

[–]Leprecon 0 points1 point ago

It isn't like they are the only company that buys from foxconn...
Though they are the only ones according to the media for some reason.

[–]EatingSteak[S] 0 points1 point ago

Well I have yet to see Acer make a public statement saying they care about each and every single person in their supply chain. Essentially, their take is "whatever, they're cheaper". Not overly admirable, but I'd rather just see them quietly buy such products than making empty statements about values.

[–]mph1204 0 points1 point ago

Apple would probably love to buy products without making the empty sentiments but NYT is kinda making it tough.

[–]silentmage 7 points8 points ago

Well then why do the factories that make your product have to put in nets on the side of their buildings to prevent suicides?

[–]TaxExempt 21 points22 points ago

If they didn't care, the nets wouldn't be there.

[–]ChaosMotor 4 points5 points ago

They care that acquiring and training new workers costs more than paying their existing workers enough to avoid suicides.

[–]TaxExempt 0 points1 point ago

My comment was mostly sarcastic, with a hint of truth.

[–]DemDude 5 points6 points ago* 

Suicide Rates of Foxconn employees are actually significantly lower than those in the rest of china, and even significantly lower than those in the US. But don't let that disturb your circlejerk ^

edit: I accidentally a word.

[–]rabel 2 points3 points ago

Wow, our labor standards sure have gotten low. Come work at FoxConn, you're less likely to commit suicide!

I understand what you're saying here but your "circlejerk" reference really screws up a valid point. Having to install nets to prevent employees from successfully committing suicide really should be an indicator that your place of employment isn't quite up to snuff (yeah, I went there). This is true even if suicide rates at this place is less than the overall average. It's not so much that FoxConn is lowering the suicide rate because of anything they've done, it's because it's lower because while these people are still living in conditions equal to our worst prisons, at least they have a job. And if you look at a small portion of any group (400,000 vs 1B chinese) you'll see statistical anomalies like this.

The point is, this place is a fucking shit hole and it's the fault of every US company that uses them. As a country we should be demanding that US companies pull out of FoxConn and bring those jobs back to the United States and fuck right, I'll pay and extra $20 - $50 for my iPhone because of it.

[–]DemDude 3 points4 points ago* 

I don't think my circlejerk reference is uncalled for, seeing the way reporting in the media, but especially on reddit, is skewed to make it look like Apple is the only company that has their stuff produced at FoxConn, and how FoxConn is supposed to be some sort of hellhole...

Sure, by western standards, living and working conditions at FoxConn are horrific, there's no doubt about that. By Chinese standards, though, it's not that bad. It may even be better than the average Chinese factory worker's conditions. What we're witnessing are typical growing pains of a developing economy, and the money and international interest will help gradually improve people's conditions. This is not something that'll happen in a year, but it's happening.

What I'm saying is - like most things, you have to view this in its context. What is happening right now is blind hate and rage based on biased and misleading information, which I'm not a big fan of. 99% of people don't know that Apple is only one of a plethora of companies that have stuff manufactured at FoxConn, and even fewer people know that the suicide rate there is actually far below average.

And a quick thing about the nets: That one was a dumb move publicity-wise, no question about it. But I'm pretty sure the people who did it actually thought they were doing something beneficial for the workforce. But that wasn't the only thing they did at the Shenzhen factory - they more than doubled their wages, too. But most people won't know that either.

edit: Oh, also, I'd pay more for a phone that is produced under better conditions (bear in mind that any phone/gadget produced in Asia is produced under equal conditions, they just don't get any press), but I am fairly certain that moving Apple's production to the US would do everything but improve Shenzhen's workers' conditions, a couple hundred thousand of them would most likely lose their jobs immediately, and the press they got through Apple would vanish in a second. This would most definitely be very bad for every FoxConn worker...

[–]rabel 1 point2 points ago

I agree with your points and I'd like to see global society move away from these types of labor camps and companies like Apple are in a great position to do something about it. A lot of the labor to make these products just simply cannot be found in the USA because nobody will do it, just like harvesting produce. The power lies in the Western consumer to demand living wages and human working conditions from the companies they purchase products from and so, yet again, it comes down to the worldwide 99% looking out for each other.

Thank you for your facts and intelligent discussion!

[–]Sieziggy -1 points0 points ago

citation needed

[–]DemDude 10 points11 points ago* 

The Economist good enough for ya?

The toll (a dozen this year) is lower than the suicide rate among the general population in China.

That's a dozen out of 400,000 employees in that one park in Shenzhen, which, depending on how you'd like to count this, translates to a rate that is between four and sixteen times lower than the national average.

If you only count the one industrial park where the suicides took place, that'd be 400,000 employees, if you count all of FoxConn, that's 800,000 employees. Maximum suicides per year in all of FoxConn was 14 in 2010. [The official suicide rate in China](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China) is 13.9 per 100,000, but studies suggest rates as high as 30.3 per 100,000.

In the US, the rate was at 11.8 per 100,000, which is still four to eight times higher than at FoxConn.

edit: Thought I'd had something wrong, but actually had it right the first time.

edit2: How do I format the wikipedia link so it looks right?

[–]HaMMeReD -3 points-2 points ago

I'd be wary of any statistics. Whats the actual death-rate of the are, regardless of suicides.

It's entirely possible that lots of workers are undocumented, or that the suicides even go undocumented.

[–]DemDude 3 points4 points ago

True, that's why I've tried to include every available number. In any case, I'd trust the numbers we have on Foxconn to be more accurate than the ones we have on China, since Foxconn is under much more scrutiny than the rest of China. Also, Apple's inquiries into and reports on their supply chain manufacturers are usually very thorough, and they are very public about their findings (for example: The cases of child labour that were in the press lately were uncovered by Apple's own public reports, based on their own investigations. This is one key bit of info that you won't have read in the highly editorialized stories in /r/technology or /r/gadgets ).

[–]thatusernameisal -2 points-1 points ago

How many US factories had to install nets to prevent suicide?

[–]DemDude 2 points3 points ago

How many US factories are cities of 400,000 people?

It's easy to generate outrage over something when people hardly know half the truth. In reality, if anything, Foxconn is lowering suicide rates among the chinese population. See my answer to Sieziggy for more trustworthy citation.

[–]ravend13 0 points1 point ago

Because our shareholders only approve of us "caring" in ways that don't affect the bottom line.

[–]nrbartman 0 points1 point ago

TIM COOK: "Obligatory PR position"

[–]mph1204 2 points3 points ago

I guess this doesn't come up a lot in discussions about Apple and Foxconn but this is pretty much normal operating procedure in China. The culture in China is so flippant about workers rights and wages that what we think is evil and horrible is the norm over there. I'm not saying that either company should be let off the hook for their treatment of workers, but we should really step back and stop looking at it through Western eyes.

Source: Chinese dude

[–]cojafoji 3 points4 points ago

Would love to see what would happen if Apple actually forced the production facilities to pay their workers a decent wage.

[–]CrimsonVim 6 points7 points ago

Prices would go up across the board, for starters.

[–]Razed 6 points7 points ago

Heaven forbid it cut into their ridiculous margins. Their profit per item is probably the best in the entire tech industry.

[–]CrimsonVim 0 points1 point ago

I don't disagree, but changing an entire business model is not something companies like to do.

[–]Sieziggy 2 points3 points ago

They wouldn't have to. With the profits they've earned they could certainly cut off on some of their net game to significantly improve the lives of their workers. But they wont.

[–]Gluverty[!] 0 points1 point ago

Isn't that illegal from the shareholders POV?

[–]Sieziggy -1 points0 points ago

I don't think there's anything in the law which prevents you from paying your employees better or enforcing environmental and employee safety / well being standards. Every company must determine what their profit margin should be and what they must cut, clearly apple is fine with placing the burden on it's factory workers.

[–]Gluverty[!] 1 point2 points ago

I might be misinformed, but I thought once your stock is public you are legally bound to reap as much profit as possible.

[–]some_dev 1 point2 points ago

You're legally obligated to work for the shareholders' interests, which people usually take to mean "As much profit as possible." However, a company could make the argument that spending profits on better employment practices would benefit the public image and thus work in the interests of shareholders. My understanding is that the law is fairly broad with regards to what constitutes their interests.

However, there's a lot of space in between "technically illegal", "legal, but would cause shareholders to dump and sink the stock price" and "shareholders call for you to be ousted at the next shareholder meeting." How many people are willing to see their 401k drop in value so that Chinese workers get a better salary? I would be, but I suspect I'm not the norm.

[–]CrimsonVim 1 point2 points ago

That's because corporations are money driven. Why is Apple getting all the blame anyway? Tons of big-name tech companies use Foxconn. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Apple here, but it's not as if this is entirely their fault.

[–]Sieziggy -1 points0 points ago

Of course, but I think they garner extra attention because they try to maintain the image of being green, friendly, and generally more progressive. When you put Gandhi in a commercial and then completely abuse a populace to turn a profit it makes you look like a giant douche.

[–]adremeaux -1 points0 points ago

Read this article and you'll know why. It becomes pretty clear that it is deserved that Apple is taking all of the blame.

[–]Leprecon 0 points1 point ago

The above post;

Why is Apple getting all the blame anyway? Tons of big-name tech companies use Foxconn.

Your article:

Apple is not the only electronics company doing business within a troubling supply system. Bleak working conditions have been documented at factories manufacturing products for Dell, Hewlett-Packard, I.B.M., Lenovo, Motorola, Nokia, Sony, Toshiba and others. [...] Some former Apple executives say there is an unresolved tension within the company: executives want to improve conditions within factories, but that dedication falters when it conflicts with crucial supplier relationships or the fast delivery of new products. [...] Executives at other corporations report similar internal pressures. [...] The company has plants throughout China, and assembles an estimated 40 percent of the world’s consumer electronics, including for customers like Amazon, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Nintendo, Nokia and Samsung.

The article you linked was written from an Apple perspective but it in no means diminishes or alleviates collective guilt by the industry. It clearly says that this isn't an isolated apple case but an industry wide problem.

[–]adremeaux -1 points0 points ago

You are choosing to ignore key parts of the article in regards to Apple vs other companies:

Apple typically asks suppliers to specify how much every part costs, how many workers are needed and the size of their salaries. Executives want to know every financial detail. Afterward, Apple calculates how much it will pay for a part. Most suppliers are allowed only the slimmest of profits.

So suppliers often try to cut corners, replace expensive chemicals with less costly alternatives, or push their employees to work faster and longer, according to people at those companies.

“The only way you make money working for Apple is figuring out how to do things more efficiently or cheaper,” said an executive at one company that helped bring the iPad to market. “And then they’ll come back the next year, and force a 10 percent price cut.”

Executives at multiple suppliers, in interviews, said that Hewlett-Packard and others allowed them slightly more profits and other allowances if they were used to improve worker conditions.

Yes, all the major companies use these factories. No, they do not all have the factory's employees treated like Apple does.

[–]Leprecon 0 points1 point ago

"slightly more profits"? Sounds like paradise, you are right. Apple does deserve all the hate. After all, other companies give a slightly larger financial benefit to employees!

I shall join you in your conquest to downvote whomever disagrees with you!

[–]adremeaux 0 points1 point ago

You aren't disagreeing with me, you are dodging the facts so you don't have to bother rethinking your preconceived notions. You are posting bullshit all over this thread then run at any sign that you are wrong.

And no, the downvotes are not from me. Get over yourself.

[–]EatingSteak[S] -1 points0 points ago

Apple's products are marked up very, very highly (as opposed to Dell's and HP's which are sold at razor-thin margins), and are primarily priced on total revenue and customers' willingness to pay.

Hence, at their current prices, they wouldn't really be able to "pass it on" to the customer" (whereas Wal-Mart would), and the higher production cost would simply eat at their bottom line.

So really, it would come down to Apple making $145 off of every iphone sold, rather than $150.

[–]mph1204 0 points1 point ago

heh...it's actually a pretty good wage in China when considering that they have their living expenses paid for.

[–]The_Justicer 4 points5 points ago

Why is all of the focus on Apple, and not any of the other huge electronics companies?

Oh wait. I'm on Reddit. Carry on.

[–]adremeaux 0 points1 point ago

Because Apple is the biggest company by a large margin, reporting record profits year after year and sitting on obscene cash reserves? They are the company that needs to make something happen, and they are the company that can make something happen, but they don't.

[–]Gluverty[!] -2 points-1 points ago

Apple is bigger than IBM, Microsoft, Dell, Sony and Intel?

[–]adremeaux 5 points6 points ago* 

Yes, actually. Apple is the most valuabale company in the world. None of those companies you mention are even close. The largest market cap among them is Microsoft at $245B—less than half of Apple.

Do people honestly not know this?

[–]Gluverty[!] 1 point2 points ago

Honestly didn't

[–]asianwaste -1 points0 points ago

I believe it has a lot to do with dispelling the image Apple markets itself as.

[–]gonzone 1 point2 points ago

"Even the little kids!"

[–]NZShantyman -1 points0 points ago

Did anyone see the daily show the other week, these poor fuckers are working crazy hours for a low arse wage (as you all know) and forming a union can get you jail time. Why is it so hard for apple just to put $5 on every item and pay these people at least 50% more? This is a serious question, is there something I'm missing?

[–]darkplumb90 -1 points0 points ago

Maybe if he actually did something about it then I'd believe him.

[–]wrathofg0d 1 point2 points ago

http://www.marriedtothesea.com/011012/the-world-needs-ipods-ipads-ipeds-and-ipyds.gif

[–]nepidae 0 points1 point ago

If you could, would you go back in time and change how the workers were treated during the american industrial revolution?

[–]HerbertSnow 0 points1 point ago

That's what Hilter said about the jews.

[–]adremeaux -2 points-1 points ago

This article is a must read

Check out this quote from Jobs:

“I actually think Apple does one of the best jobs of any companies in our industry, and maybe in any industry, of understanding the working conditions in our supply chain. I mean, you go to this place, and, it’s a factory, but, my gosh, I mean, they’ve got restaurants and movie theaters and hospitals and swimming pools, and I mean, for a factory, it’s a pretty nice factory.”

Is that so, Mr. Jobs?

Investigations by news organizations revealed that over a hundred employees had been injured by n-hexane, a toxic chemical that can cause nerve damage and paralysis. Employees said they had been ordered to use n-hexane to clean iPhone screens because it evaporated almost three times as fast as rubbing alcohol. Faster evaporation meant workers could clean more screens each minute.

Mr. Lai was...in charge of a team that maintained the machines that polished iPad cases. The sanding area was loud and hazy with aluminum dust. Workers wore masks and earplugs, but no matter how many times they showered, they were recognizable by the slight aluminum sparkle in their hair and at the corners of their eyes.

Mr. Lai’s college degree enabled him to earn a salary of around $22 a day, including overtime — more than many others. When his days ended, he would retreat to a small bedroom just big enough for a mattress, wardrobe and a desk

Those accommodations were better than many of the company’s dorms, where 70,000 Foxconn workers lived, at times stuffed 20 people to a three-room apartment, employees said. Last year, a dispute over paychecks set off a riot in one of the dormitories, and workers started throwing bottles, trash cans and flaming paper from their windows, according to witnesses. Two hundred police officers wrestled with workers, arresting eight. Afterward, trash cans were removed, and piles of rubbish — and rodents — became a problem.

Sounds fucking great, Steve.

I am genuinely, truly happy that this man is dead. He was nothing short of a terrible human being. The enormity of his selfishness may never be seen again in this world, and for that I am happy.

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