this post was submitted on 08 Feb 2010
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FlexiKnobs - a set of slick controllers for quick and easy multipoint interaction with any audio software. What do you think, reddit? (self.gadgets)

submitted 29 days ago by krx

Kristian Gohlke and Michael Haltky from the University of Applied Sciences Bremen presented a set of slick controllers for quick and easy multipoint interaction with any audio software at TEI Conference 2010 at the MIT Media Lab, Cambridge, MA. Seems like the good old mouse is not quite dead yet.

Here's the Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuUjf-c6L6U

Here's the abstract:

"Parameters in audio or video editing applications can mostly be controlled by a variety of hardware devices such as MIDI controllers. However, these controllers usually feature only a limited number of physical knobs arranged in a fixed layout. The hundreds of parameters offered by typical editing software across dozens of windows with distinct arrangements of on-screen controls are hard to map to such a fixed physical interface. To improve this, we have built a set of wireless mice enhanced with rotary knob controllers, trying to integrate the flexibility and transparency of mouse interaction with the benefits of physical controllers. Custom driver software enables the simultaneous use of multiple knobs with a large variety of unmodified standard software."

...check out the full conference paper here: http://tei-conf.org/10/Program/FlexiKnobsBridgingTheGapBetweenMouseInteractionAndHardwareControllers

What do you think, reddit?

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AdmiralBumblebee 2 points3 points 29 days ago* [-]

This is kind of silly. Most audio software allows you to freely assign a midi message to any applicable controller. For instance in ableton live, you can simply click a control, move a knob on your controller device, and now it's mapped. Done. Move mouse, move controller, done. Same as this device. The difference is that most midi controllers have banking abilities, morphing and more than simple rotation to CC mapping. Not only are the technically more flexible, but the device is one-piece and not a bunch of independent controllers scattered around your desk vying for the same HID widget (mouse cursor).

All this does is take an otherwise easy to use controller concept and make it more difficult to use by splitting up the knobs to different pieces of hardware.

I do kinda feel bad for the guy who made this as he had a great idea that was unfortunately about 15 years late.

SicTim 0 points1 point 29 days ago[-]

Reaper has similar functions, but the novelty wore off quick for me. I use this newfangled controller called a "mouse" to control stuff like VSTi theremins.

AdmiralBumblebee 0 points1 point 29 days ago[-]

It is a novelty when you're working alone in your... wherever you work alone.

When you're working live, or working in a studio environment with more than 1 person, then this control paradigm is very important. Being able to control more than 1 thing at a time is key in these situations and a mouse does not let you do this. A mouse is designed to let one person control 1 thing at a time.

Just imagine if a guitarist walked up to you and said, "I can make all the music I want with just 1 string." A perfectly reasonable response would be, "Well, then you don't want to make much of a variety of music do you?"

SicTim 0 points1 point 29 days ago[-]

I'm old. I like to lay down one track at a time, then mix and EQ later -- maybe because I started in the analog days.

Jimmy Page wasn't playing 16 guitars at a time when he did the overdubs for Kashmir.

AdmiralBumblebee 1 point2 points 29 days ago* [-]

No, but he was frequently playing 6 strings at a time, and he probably mixed it by moving more than 1 fader/knob at a time too.

Hell, to be an old analog guy you'd HAVE to understand the need for being able to operate more than 1 device at a time. It's common practice for non-overdubs to engage the transport and the record head simultaneously. Not only that, but many consoles have stereo faders for the busses which require you to move 2 faders simultaneously for most common adjustments. I could go on for a while listing common 'analog days' devices that required you to control more than 1 element of the device at once.

If anything, using a mouse is the near antithesis of mixing/making music the way it was done more than 15 years ago.

SicTim 0 points1 point 29 days ago[-]

As a musician first, I sincerely doubt Page was futzing with faders while he recorded his parts.

Here's how my numerous studio sessions in the analog days almost invariably went: A live take, which served as a dummy track; drums playing along with the dummy track; bass; guitar(s); vocals; then overdubs.

Now, I love this digital age, especially not having to bounce down tracks; and being able to non-destructively add effects, amp & cab models, etc.

But I don't see how using a joystick or other odd controller is better for making music than a mouse.

Oh, and if you are AdmiralBob messing with me, see you on our home turf. :

AdmiralBumblebee 0 points1 point 29 days ago[-]

While he recorded his parts, no. After absolutely.

Do you want an explanation of how a controller is better for music than a mouse? I will happily oblige if so.

SicTim 0 points1 point 29 days ago[-]

Do you want an explanation of how a controller is better for music than a mouse? I will happily oblige if so.

If I could seriously learn from the advice, absolutely. We may be disagreeing here, but I never shut out an opportunity to learn new tricks.

And if you want to hear what I'm up to, just Google my username.

AdmiralBumblebee 0 points1 point 29 days ago[-]

Ok. I'll just take the basic 4 rock instruments. Drums, Bass, Guitar, Keyboard.

Electronic drums: I think this is obvious that multiple midi messages be relayed at once. You can program a part with your mouse, but you certainly can't play a part with your mouse.

Acoustic drums: When mixing it's pretty common to adjust multiple kit portions at once and multi-part mute/solo. You can do these with a mouse by assigning groups, but then you have to manipulate and select groups before each action rather than simply performing the action.

Guitar: running through a virtual rig playing live is nearly impossible with a mouse. You need to trigger effects, adjust effects, adjust levels and other adjustments. Even playing through a virtual rig while recording is much easier using a midi pedal board. All messages are recorded while you record a DI, and you can edit your multi-part movements later.

Keyboard: Well, since the mid 80's almost all controls on keyboards are mapped to midi CC, along with each note to a note-on/off message along with velocity and perhaps aftertouch. It's very common to simultaneously adjust filter resonance and frequency at once, modulation, ADSR envelopes etc... These all apply to using VI's as well . There is a HUGE market for midi controllers with all sorts of knobs and faders specifically for this. When you're using a sequencer through a synth or sampler then adjusting multiple parameters at once is nearly a requirement.

When you get into multi-timbral layouts the complication of adjusting multiple parts at once is alleviated by having multiple controls available for quick adjustment.

Bass guitar: as applies to guitar :)

Just some usual ways that having access to more than a single device at a time is useful. Then you can apply any concepts to when more than 1 person is working on something at once.

It's also worth considering that mouse usage is not always feasible when you have to hunt and peck around to manipulate a controller. Anytime where concentration is important, having a layout of physical controls statically or at least predictably mapped to devices is more intuitive and has less room for mistakes.

There's some places a mouse works fine of course, but there's a lot a mouse can't do that a well-setup controller can especially when performing or working with other people.

krx [S] 0 points1 point 28 days ago[-]

Hej Bumblebee, thanks for sharing your thoughts.. its the criticism that sports innovation. I'd love to hear more. Still I have a slight feeling that you see the FlexiKnobs as yet-another-mouse. Actually they're not.. it's the software that makes the difference.

First of all simultaneous interaction using more than one knob works like on any standard MIDI controller.

Also, the input from each knob can be mapped to a variety of control messages, MIDI, OSC, Keystrokes, u-name-it.. and yes: mouse events too. One could just assign the knob to a given parameter and keep that assignment forever. However, it is also feasible to simply switch between several mappings for each knob, do standard MIDI-learn, or use the ubiquitous point-and-klick interaction to reassign. So flexibility is really the key. But behold: this will never replace the dear MIDI-controller and it was never meant to do that. It is simply just another way to interact with audio software in a way that is just not possible on a touch screen.

SicTim 0 points1 point 29 days ago[-]

Oh man, serious disconnect somewhere between us.

I was speaking of studio work, not live play. Personally, I don't believe in studio tricks onstage -- gimme a 10lb solid body with humbuckers and a 100W amp on guitar; or a 300W, 1x18 amp with a split-P style bass and I'm good to go.

Acoustic drums: These are what I currently miss the most. Good drummers have been in high demand for as long as I can remember.

Guitars: Gimme my trusty Boss DS-1 and a 75W combo or a 100W head, everything else is superfluous.

Bass: I'm sitting right next to two Ampeg S-210 vintage "blueface" cabs. But I'll take an Acoustic 360 over 'em any day.

Keyboards: I have a Yamaha DX-21 in the corner, and an Oxy-8 v2. MIDI controller handy.

Again, stalk me on Google, and at the bottom of my Soundclick page is an equipment list which I haven't updated in a while, but what I use at home and what I use on stage are totally different animals.

palalab -1 points0 points 29 days ago[-]

This is an interesting solution to a real problem for electronic musicians. IMO it won't really be solved until we have multitouch screens and software that can take advantage of them.

krx [S] -1 points0 points 29 days ago[-]

The software actually spawns one mouse cursor for each connected device. This system is not meant to replace MIDI controllers or the like. It's designed for those situations where you do not have a certain parameter mapped out to your MIDI-Controller, and are left with the choice to either reassign any of the knobs from your carefully crafted MIDI setup, or simply fall back to mere mouse interaction..

They also come in handy when some laptop musician wants to share his instrument with other band members, i.e. pass that filter cutoff to the singer..

Also, they can be used to play pong ;-)

AdmiralBumblebee 0 points1 point 29 days ago[-]

This still exists in applications like novation's automap, or in application-controller combinations that have banks, custom templates, patches etc..

I'm sitting next to 3 devices right now that let me change midi message assignments on the fly via banking, patches or proprietary templates. I can go into my living room and grab 2 more...

Unfortunately his isn't very new or helpful for someone who's 'into' this sort of thing.

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